I’m not talking about people doing 16’s, I’m talking about people doing top 100 stuff.
Did this result in an actual majority of the playerbase getting Light of Dawn before Cata release?
I’m not sure that those are analogous TBH. Something like Light of Dawn would be more comparable to ranking on the Leaderboard.
Heroic Lich King 25 was first killed with the 5% buff active.
Bear in mind that so far, nothing in the current proposed Mythic+ Valor system comes close to offering “the best gear in the game”. Being able to upgrade up to 220 is a long way off from the 233’s that drop from Sire or Stone Generals on Mythic.
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I don’t because 220 is dramatically higher than the useless 210 we get now. It’s also an adequate award for a 15. It’s not as difficult as mythic raiding, and it shouldn’t award equal gear. It is however more difficult than heroic raiding, so it should be higher than 213 not lower.
The distribution is like that because heroic raiding is easier than KSM. It is much easier to carry s**t players in a bigger group.
What would you define as “the difficulty of Mythic raiding”? Because there’s kind of a big curve between killing entry-level Mythic bosses that drop Mythic-level loot, and killing the actually hard bosses. I don’t know if we have any oneshot bosses this tier, but those have been pretty common through raiding in general.
Often said entry level Mythic bosses are easier than the harder Heroic bosses too, so I don’t see how you’re trying to pin this down.
I think this is a good point, and that it’s perhaps something that was missed in my earlier conversation with Ravicana. There’s still further to go upgrading gear to 220… upgrades that can come from the Vault and from Mythic raiding.
I do hope Blizzard reconsiders this.
It’s probably minor, but the other low-key annoying aspect of the Valor system as it is will be to accentuate keystone RNG. It’s going to be really frustrating if you have a premade group for example, and RNG keeps denying you that one dungeon to unlock the next upgrade tier while you’re sitting on Valor to use. At least with achievement alone, the effect is diminished. You could conceivably progress to 10’s or beyond before actually RNG’ing a key that completes your +5 achievement.
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I really like it. Would be nice to have a +20 achieve for all dungeons with 226 gear for those that are on the cutting edge. Other then that, great start imo
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KSM is about equivalent to 3/10 mythic.
I looked it up on raiderio. There are about as many KSM players as there are 3/10 mythic raiders.
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Or rated PvP for that matter.
Can we all agree that there should be a higher breakpoint above 15s? The post specifically refers to m+ focused players. Is it unrealistic that those who focus the content will reach 18 by end of season? 20 if they’re really good. So instead of losing the 15 breakpoint, they add 18 and 20 and that should line it up with rated pvp. Idk if there’s a single group with all 20s in time as of right now, so rewarding 233 weapons only, would be a huge prize and rare enough that no one would say it’s “spammable”.
Edit: We don’t know what their future plans for raiding are as of now, we know they’re looking at it, so it would be foolish to compare current raiding to future m+ until we know what they have planned for them.
Agreed. I’ll probably never come close to even attempting a 20, but this sounds like it should happen.
But like you said, great start.
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I’d definitely agree as well. KSM is usually my goalpost for a season and I don’t really see myself going farther, in the same way that a Heroic raid clear is usually my goalpost and I don’t have a ton of interest in Mythic. In both cases I usually just go with whatever my guild wants to do until the next season. But having stuff for people to do past that is fine by me.
I don’t really buy into gear as a status symbol… gear should be a thing that enables you to do the content you want to do. So if you wanna push 20’s, or higher, having natural gear progression that comes from that makes a ton of sense. Having an achievement just gives people something to work for.
I’d imagine most M+ people who would want to do that kind of thing really wouldn’t mind if their gear only scaled to, say, 226 outside of M+.
I usually stop pushing once I receive KSM, but I might try to push higher if they add achievement/gear after 15. It means they also need to make sure all the tanks are viable at m20, not just current m15.
Fairly confident that every tank has completed a 20 in time.
Edit: just checked. The lowest rep is warrior, but they have, in fact, completed a 20.
According to the RIO leaderboard, there is currently exactly one warrior in the world that has timed every +20, and you only have go down to #9 before you find someone with no +20s at all. It appears that no prot warrior has ever successfully done a single +22.
For comparison, BDK is the other tank that seems to struggle in M+, but there are BDKS with some +23s, and I have to go down to #30 before I find someone without any +20s.
So while it is technically possible, there’s a very clear disparity in tank balance at those key levels - not just the “VDH are meta and so everyone is playing them” gap, but even between the worst and the second-worst.
Possible is all that matters. There are DHs that struggle in 10s. I don’t care about precision balancing. It’s never going to happen until the available classes are generic tank, generic damage, generic healer.
But, if we’re discussing rewards at 18/20 it only takes 1 person to prove its viable. It’s definitely harder then meta, but viable.
I think that “possible” and “viable” mean different things, don’t they?
It’s not unreasonable to desire for tanks to be within some similar range. People have been doing crazy things for a long time. Haha I remember back in TBC when Feral Druids were hot garbage in arenas, there was a handful of folks who got glad and people would be like, “Look, the class is fine!” as if it was super easy to do or something.
This is a bit off topic though… I think rewards and achievements aren’t mutually exclusive goals 
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This is a silly thing to say. I agree that we’re never going to get perfect parity between tanks, but it is perfectly reasonable to ask for better parity than a factor-of-100 gap between specs.
Right now when +20s are just for bragging rights, sure, who cares. Balancing bragging rights is not a priority. But if they start tying rewards to it, it should be at least kind of a priority.
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Viable - capable of working successfully; feasible.
1 person proves its viable.
Optimal, most popular, easiest, most common are not synonyms for viable.
What metric are you referring to? There’s a factor of 4 keystone as of now.
Edit: if we’re referring back to popularity, let’s look at other forms of content where tanks exist.
RBGs top 2 tanks are Veng and Bear.
Raiding top 3 is Monk, Veng, Blood.
M+ Veng, Bear, Paladin, Monk are top 4 in key levels.
You can currently play every branch of content at high level as a Veng. Why wouldn’t it be popular?
Add in that gearing is currently in a spot that doing all content is the very best way to get high ilvl. Havoc being pretty trash. Ranged meta.
Droods can be any spec and be good. Windwalker is killing it in all 3 branches.
Arms is ridiculous in PvP (at the very least, their damage numbers are also good and they are doing 20+)
Uh DK is pretty bonkers.
Hpal has solid representation at the top of key stones.
There are many factors going into the tank representation. The fact that DH may be king during a kiting meta doesn’t mean they are the bulkiest balance wise.