I think the lightsaber fights were worst. There’s little to no emotion or tension, pointless twirling and spinning, and entirely too much CGI. The new trilogy did lightsabers better.
I also don’t care for force-users being unstoppable one-person armies with enough plot-armor to weigh down a star destroyer. They distract from and marginalize normal characters on the screen. Finn not being instantly killed using a lightsaber again Ren wasn’t stupid, it makes sense that someone trained from a young age to be a soldier can wound a cocky Sith.
One of the best Star Wars movies hands down is Rogue One. It just seem everything really came together for that movie. And the suprise of Vader at the end, tying it to A New Hope was genius
As for the prequel trilogy, they’re werent the best. But I enjoyed them. Revenge of the Sith is still one of my favorites.
That is kinda the point. The Jedi have had 1k years of not seeing any Sith since they defeated Darth Bane. Hell, Mace Windu and Ki-Adi-Mundi dismiss Qui-Gons testimony that the force user he fought was a Sith.
The Jedi believed that if Bane had a student, they would’ve showed up in due time since the Sith lack something important. Patience. Yet it was this belief that would be the Jedi’s downfall. As the Sith placed a plan in motion that would take around 1k years to be executed. Which required what? Patience. And a lot of it. The rule of Two was all about this. Just two Sith. A master and a student. The master will pick a student and train them until someone better crosses their radar. Meanwhile the Student will make sure that they have no challengers while learning enough to one day kill their master.
Plus Ben was already wounded by Chewie when Chewie shot him after he killed Han.
And the Council was so arrogant they couldn’t even sense that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, who was literally running the entire show right under their noses. That was also the point that made their downfall inevitable. They became arrogant and self serving after a 1k yrs of no enemies to fight.
The fact that the Jedi Temple was built on top of a Sith one seeks volumes of their arrogance. They were sitting from a literal ivory tower. Believing that they could maintain peace for another 1k years since they have already done so. But in truth they didn’t. The Sith simply made them believe that they did. And instead of seeking out if Bane had a student, they simply expected that they would come to them. So when no-one came to challenge them, they believed that the Sith died with Darth Bane.
Going from active to reactive doomed them in the long run. Hell they didn’t know that one of their own went behind their back to make a Clone Army. The only person who found out was Sidious and used that to his advantage by ordering Dooku to kill Sifo and take over the “negotiations” for the Clone Army.
Although Dooku pawned off his “kill Sifo” mission to the Pykes.
Plagueis and Palpatine were a different breed of Sith. They figured out that directly attacking the Jedi never worked in the past, but if you could spread them out across the universe, manipulate events to disenfranchise some and put the others in charge of one the biggest armies the universe ever seen? Plus with Windu and the others eventually trying to arrest Palpatine towards the end of the war? They fell into every trap laid at their feet.
While believing that it would work out the same way as it did last time.
Although George does consider that Windu did defeat Sidious legit. Windu did train and created his own form to counter the Sith ones. So Windu did have some belief that the Sith might return. Only that if they did return, they would know. He says as much when Qui-Gon relays his encounter with Maul to the Jedi.
I’m on team George when it comes to this debate. Sidious was always stronger with his tongue, not his lightsabers. His wit and intelligence are his true strengths.
Regardless of what Lucas says, if you watch that fight, you can clearly see Sidious is stalling. I mean, we’re talking about a Sith who wrecked Master Yoda of all people in a fight when he dropped all pretenses. Plus I think canonically Sidious is one of the strongest Sith Lords to ever exist. His mastery of the Dark Side was unparalleled
While Sidious was hopeful that Anakin would come to his side, I don’t think he would’ve taken the risk. One slip up while trying to stall would give Mace an advantage. Mace was the orders best swordsman. Yoda was stronger in the force, but not in melee combat. It is why the Yoda vs Sidious fight mainly focuses on their force powers. While the Windu vs Sidious fight focuses on Lightsaber combat. And the YvS fight ends in a draw. Although Yoda knows that he might lose if he tried to continue fighting. So he leaves instead.
He is. If it wasn’t for Anakin losing like 50% of his body and needing the suit to survive. Vader would topple Sidious easily.
Slight subject change, but one of my fondest moments was the ending of AoTC when Palpatine and the others were watching the newly minted star destroyers and Clone troopers going to off to war while the Imperial March played, I remember smiling so hard and humming the tune because it so iconic and I grew up with the Orignal trilogy.
Though I do love the Prequel and Sequels too for different reasons.
I was referring more to the fact that an angry young kid is not Jedi Material, not the Jedi Masters being unable to defeat the power of the plot. (Since this is a prequel series, we already know they don’t win.)
There was talk of a deleted scene after the Pod Race where the Rodian kid from the movie insulted Anakin by accusing him of cheating cause he was a human. Anakin loses his temper and hurts the Rodian kid. Lucas axed it because he didn’t like the child-on-child violence for a kid movie. It also didn’t paint Anakin in a good light (which was kinda the purpose since we are talking Darth Vader here).
It broke the “show don’t tell” rule where we are left being told Anakin isn’t a good candidate as opposed to being shown he isn’t a good candidate.
The saddest part about Anakin is he never stood a chance once Palpatine became aware of him. He started manipulating and grooming Anakin since he was a kid. Anakin was a great Jedi and did many heroic things, but with Palpatine whispering promises of power and constantly feeding his ego, Palps knew it was a matter of time before he turned.
This is a problem with this series being a prequel series where the ending was already known. Because of the details already known from the Original Trilogy they had no choice but to hand out idiot balls for all the major players to hold.
Was this from one of the Novels? The movie never firmly establishes if Sifo actually ordered the clones. Jango flat out tells Obi-Wan he was hired by (Darth) Tyranus who is actually Dooku.
Attack of the Clones does actually. The Kaminoans mention Sifo when Obi-wan arrives. Basically Sidious and dooku take over after Sifo-Dyas made the order but before a suitable donor was found. Hence why Jango said he was recruited by a man called Tyranus.
LAMA SU
Please tell your Master Sifo-Dyas
that we have every confidence his
order will be met on time and in
full. He is well, I hope?
OBI-WAN
I'm sorry Master - ?
LAMA SU
Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. He's still
a leading member of the Jedi
Council, is he not?
OBI-WAN
Oh, yes. Sifo-Dyas.
LAMA SU
(rising)
You must be anxious to inspect the
units for yourself.
OBI-WAN
That's why I'm here.
The 2008 Clone Wars series would later have an arc in Season 6 (the lost episodes) where the Jedi learn that Sifo-dyas was killed by the Pykes on orders from this “Tyranus” and that Dooku IS Tyranus. Obi-wan then makes the connection that the Sith took over Sifo’s Clone Order (due to what Jango mentioned in Attack of the Clones) but since it is so late into the clone wars and the clones have shown themselves to be loyal soldiers, it would be political suicide to come out and expose the truth. Even more so with the Republic’s citizens turning against the Jedi as the war progresses.
I believe the order of events was.
Sifo-Dyas senses a major war is coming and the republic needs an army. The Jedi refuse his proposal so he leaves.
In secret he orders the creation of a Clone Army considering his fears were coming true when the Invasion of Naboo begins.
Finis Valorum places Sifo along with his personal aid Silman on a mission to ensure negotiations with the Pykes. Dooku, whom at this point had fallen to the Dark Side and became Darth Tyranus hired the Pykes to kill Sifo-Dyas. The pykes keep Silman alive as insurance.
Dooku as Tyranus hires Jango Fett as the clone donor after taking control of Sifo-Dyas’s Clone order.
Towards the end of the Clone Wars, the Jedi find the lightsaber of Sifo-Dyas. Obi-wan along with Anakin partake in an investigation to learn what happened to Sifo-Dyas. Here they learn from Valorum about the negotiations with the Pykes. The two then speak with the Pykes and learn that Silman is still alive.
Dooku on orders from Sidious (who has learned about the investigation) arrives and kills Silman. The leader of the Pykes reveals that Dooku is Tyranus (as he refers to Dooku as Tyranus) and is soon killed by the former Jedi. Dooku then mocks Obi-wan that he was telling the truth way back when on Geonosis.
The Jedi upon learning the truth keep it buried as the Clones have proven to be loyal soldiers so far.
Palpatine should have run screaming away from Anakin. Getting involved with Anakin was his fatal mistake. Palpatine has lots of company with that mistake.
I personally had a hard time caring about Anakin. With the future known, the tragedy required too many idiot balls being held by people for my liking. The distrust being shown Anakin by the Council makes no sense after a season or two of Clone Wars.
Kinda like Erza Miller’s character in Fantastic Beasts. The revelation at the end of Crimes of Grindlewald was lame because we already know he doesn’t even merit a footnote in Rita Skeeter’s hack job on Albus.
That is confusing. All the clones were clones of Jango right?
If Jango was hired by Tyranus then that would have been before the first clone was made. Then who was Sifo-Dyas getting clones of? And where are these clones?
And even then he had to resort to using Padme as bait and Anakin was forced to take the bait because the Jedi kept the Knights of their Order from learning Force Healing until they became Jedi Masters which is quite selfish of them as the worst case scenario would be the Jedi Knights overexpending themselves.
Since Jedi could heal and resurrect the dead with Force Healing it’s clear that the power to “cheat death” that Sidious spoke of is not Force Healing as the power to “cheat death” has been achieved by one entity not multiple.
Since healing and resurrection aren’t considered cheating death by Sidious what is? He also implies that cheating death requires power. Could he be suggesting an ability that doesn’t require any equivalent exchange of life energies? He did suggest manipulating Midi-Chlorians to create life so said manipulation could bypass the equivalent exchange needed to resurrect the dead thus cheating death.
In any case Sidious only got a grip on Anakin due to offering a potential solution to Padme’s death while the Jedi withheld such solutions(of course Anakin simply told Yoda that he had a vision of someone dying not that said someone was dying of an ailment which could be resolved with Force Healing).
If Anakin knew of Force Healing then Sidious would have ultimately been killed by Mace Windu. Sidious only won because Force Healing wasn’t made known to Jedi Knights only to Jedi Masters.
If Anakin knew of Force Healing then when Sidious told him of Darth Plagueis’s ability to keep others from dying he’d mention Force Healing which would get a rebuttal from Sidious that Plagueis could preform the technique without giving up his or anyone else’s life which would get a rebuttal from Anakin of how that proves that Sith are selfish while Jedi are selfless.
Sifo-Dyas ordered Clones then when Sidious discovered the purchase got offed by the Pykes before coming up with a template then Tyranus sent Jango Fett along with the Microchips to serve as the template.
Who knows who Sifo-Dyas wanted as the template before Sidious had Tyranus kill him. For all we know he was going to give his own DNA for the project! All we know is that the guy paid for a Clone Army but died before acquiring the template as the plan was stolen by the Sith.
4,5,2,3,6 (then you watch 1 as a pointless indulgence if you want.)
If you are introducing someone… like a kid, to Starwars, this is how the story should be told. It preserves all plot points and surprise twists. After Empire Strikes Back ends— with the iconic reveal that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker, and the parallels between Luke and his father are suggested— you go to AotC which ignores the child ani teenage padme stuff, but quickly fills you in on any important stuff from episode 1. Episodes 2 and 3 show us Darth Vader’s fall from grace, and 3 doesnt ruin the episode 6 reveal that Leia is Luke’s sister, because it only happens slightly earlier (and its a much better reveal that actually makes the scene at Yoda’s hut better.) Return of the Jedi caps off the whole story, and has a greater emotional investment if watched in Machete order.
