Lack of Communication

Woot woot Sooting Darkness back. Sad it doesnt affect stealth tough. I feel that without healing on Stealth it kinda miss it mark.

Also I really want deadly poison over Shiv :sob:

Agreed, the proposed changes today are odd. the kids wanting soothing darkness got an even more watered down heal and there was nothing wrong with recupterate being there instead of dance dependent healing.

I would absolutely love to just have a freakin choice node for us Subtlety kids to have sanguinary vein back. the draw back is dance no longer buffs the damage for balance and instead hemo could return with backstab trucking again.

Danse macrabre is ok but what Subtlety rogue would want to use a dance to do a goofy shuriken toss / Cheap shot / backstab / ambush / shuriken storm etc to build a big hit that may or may not crit.

I’d also like perforated veins to just flat out buff backstab or lingering shadow etc instead of the dance dependency that we have since legion nonsense took over.

The argument for burst versus sustained is bs and outdated. Either way i’m going to remain a Subtlety rogue and only that but Dance has always been a tool to do damage, not our sole way to do it.

Other classes go " I don’t have damage" and still smack for 11k hits while us subtlety rogues backstab for 3k.

I wish deep down inside that gloomblade was replaced by Hemo so backstab could go back to a hard hitting mf and so dance could be a tool to reach one’s goals instead of the current dance spam nonsense that we have been turned into. If there is any expansion to bring a lot of cool crap back this would be it my man.

Blackjack is cool returning and I’ve been suggesting that for I don’t know how long now man.


Pls dont replace gloomblade :sob: I love gloomblade


It’s like 56% AP or some jazz like that, ignores all armor and still hits like crap even with deeper daggers up. I wouldn’t mind it sticking around if it actually got bumped up. It’s just entirely irritating that we are locked behind dance windows at all to be effective.

Assass and combat have access to ambushing whenever pretty much now if they choose in addition to increased effects.

Ghostly strike is symbols that is CDR able and shiv has 2 charges for assass now in addition to all the other goodies. I’m down for whatever for my brothers and sisters to get whatever they want. I just want more punch outside of dance moving forward where silly temp hits just suck and that’s it.


Hemorrhage really needs to return. It’s great that we’re finally going back to infrequent, impactful Dance windows, but Backstab as our only non-Stealth ST builder doesn’t feel good.


Well gloom is broken right now in Beta but if you had weaponmaster + the 15% crit added via improved backstab. What I also like is the 30% buff from veil and such and the 15% bonus for using Eviscerate. It would be a nice buff for it I think.


veiltouched is 10% but yes I hear you on that, I can’t imagine gloomblade doing any actual damage by itself. If people are pairing it with lingering shadow then that would make sense to make it hit harder but I wouldn’t call that broken as that is a not so careful way of saying it. Perf veins would amplify that as well for 1 hit but relying on procs from WM is also a circus of fun or misery depending on how lucky you are in the end.

I don’t care how it is done but backstab / gloom need to be effective. The whole dance spam crap can’t return anymore and was a really dumb design.

Additionally, people have far worse things to worry about rather than gloomblade hitting them. Evokers slamming for 60k regular crits and moonkin able to hit up to 121k hits not including starbursts currently smacking for up to 60k with heavy mastery builds.

Not sure what rets are doing but they also gained a talent to make them do 50% more damage during A. Wrath too I believe it was.

TLDR: Buff backstab / gloomblade and don’t touch it. Leave it alone when it’s completely ok for everyone else to have teeth outside of their “cool downs”. Especially all the CDR everyone and their mom is getting which is cool to me and I could care less.

1 Like

Agreed but doubtful it will since people only parrot what others say like resounding farts off a toilet bowl.

People need to think for themselves, I could care less what others want to emphasize on just give us the tools to accomplish what we want to do and they can keep their echoing reprimand cheese builds and whatever else they are planning to gloat over others screaming " iTs bUsTeD" with their ridiculous meme faced yt vids.

1 Like

Yeah veil is 10% but you get an additional 20% from brew thing cause its shadow dmg

Yep I remember that , just a bit wary of stuff like that. Instead if tuning outliers they tend to hit the abilities and make us all suffer.

I love that we have options and I plan on mixing sources instead of banking all in on one thing.

100% agreed


Pretty much.

This is my main issue with the class tree, which also appear in the spec tree.

It seems to need pathing in the mid range (at two points) to connect each column.

What makes this even worse is when asked about it on discord he gave a weird dodge to the question and said nothing else on it.

So it feels like he has got some weird reason for not wanting to do it. And given what he said a few months ago at this point. I believe that it is that he thinks that he can give more powerful talent choices this way but again has he looked at anyone else trees?

If anything current rogue choices are weaker and more locked up than anyone’s so that makes even less sense.

1 Like

Yeah, it’s definitely something that needs to be addressed, unless I’ve missed something.

If it’s just because he wants the tree to resemble a mask, well…

As an edit, as Mafic had mentioned in another thread, we have a very short window of time to give effective feedback.

I think it’s important to treat the issues as triage, and press on deep issues, while also calling out secondary requests that could further improve the class.

1 Like

It’s much more restrictive than all other specs.

Very much so.

The late tree CDs are underwhelming, and no excuse to be restricted when compared to all other classes. Especially when Rogue is melee DPS across all specs.

They could make it choice-node Gloomblade / Hemorrhage. Problem solved.

1 Like

Back to say, Realz stepped up. All is well. Credit where its due.

1 Like

Yeah, and reading between the letters form his last post, I presume this is all for now for Sub. So again, goodbye Hemo and playing again with both sword/fists… :frowning:

… what…?

That aside, great updates coming this week indeed, some more work to be done but almost there!

I would love for hemo to come back. But I doubt it will at this point. If it did, it would need some type of rework to make it fit better with sub now.