Kul Tirans have a misguided perspective on the second war

Hello everyone,
So this post is about the Kul Tiran’s, which are by the way my least favorite race in the game, misguided and totally wrong perspective about the Horde’s actions during the second war and the history of conflict on Azeroth.
I mean they act like we did something super terrible by razing their cities and trying to conquer their lands?? But fun fact, it actually wasn’t their land in Lordaeron or Quel’thalas. Both of those lands belonged to the Amani trolls. If the alliance can conquer and steal Troll land, then why can’t Orcs do the same. Also the Kul Tirans are a very butthurt people, they can’t get over the fact that Thrall killed Daelin Proudmoore and want to punish Jaina Proudmoore for it, more than 7 expansions later. Lady Ashvane was the most butthurt, but at least she worked with the Forsaken and Sylvanas to the benefit of the Horde. Kul Tirans are wrong about supposed Horde atrocities and are wrong about the Zandalari and the Amani. So please pay them no mind when they say the Horde are monsters, the true monsters are the Alliance who stole the Amani trolls land.

I was interested here until I read

But I’ll have a go.

nvm lol

No actually I’ll bite. The Horde, per your specifications, stole Amani troll land, why aren’t you ragging on blood elves?


This is the most stale, low-effort bait I’ve ever seen. 0/10


it is always fun to see the hypocrisy. Hell, the Forsaken occupy Lordearon right now. You should be lodging your complaint with them.


The hero worship of Daelin Proudmoore is a bit undeserved, true. Ashvane was not helping the Horde, Ashvane was always working with Azshara.


Why would it be undeserved? Without his fleet the Horde would have controlled the seas of Azeroth making it that much harder for the Alliance to win.


He’s exhausted that well already. God only knows how he’ll cope when he reads up on how the Horde killed Zul’jin on behalf of its elven allies.


He was a racist warmonger.

Even the Alliance remembers him as a racist warmonger.

His own daughter thinks of him as a racist warmonger.


And he was racist because the Horde killed his kid. I’d also point out Thrall told Jaina to remember him as he was and not as he died.
And even Jaina finally understood why his bad became the way he did after Theramore was destroyed.

If you want someone to blame we can always blame the Horde for their actions in all of this.


Yeah they work with the forest trolls though. Or at least the Revantusk. So I’m positive an amicable arrangement could be met, particularly with the Zandalari now on board to help broker it with the less talkative tribes.

The Forsaken only fumigate invasive species, like Stormwindians.

His kid was commanding a ship in a war, his kid went into battle with the Horde knowing he could possibly die. He was killed by Dragons.

If you want to hold Thrall’s Horde accountable for the Old Horde’s crimes then the Alliance must take accountability too for the Scarlet Crusade or for the orc internment camps.


And the Horde was never formally at peace with the Alliance.

The last thing the Horde did before going to the EK was steal Alliance ships and murder Alliance soldiers. Thrall’s hand was not as clean as you make it out to be.

Last I checked the Scarlet Crusade are not members of the Alliance while people like Saurfang who murder people in the Alliance were in the Horde. And if you want to blame someone for the internment camps why not focus on your forsaken buddies?


the alternative was death, and at that point how much innocent orc blood did the Alliance have on their hands hmm?


Alot but cosidering they were murdering women and children I would say that is justfied self defense.


They were in internment camps, Thrall did not participate in the first or second wars, he was an infant. Many of the Horde were not even alive to witness the First and Second Wars and Ironically in BFA the Alliance were forced to side with the one orc left who actually did kill innocents in these wars… how about that irony!


Thank you, absolutely correct. Completely agreed!!

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And again, why not blame that on your Forsaken buddies over there! Not to mention the reason they were put in the interment camps was no one know knew what to do with them at the time. What with attempting to genocide the world and a magical Lethargary and the threat if they did go free they would attack the rest of the Alliance


Posting in a Daelin Proudmoore thread. OP is a troll by the way, I remember his threads about the Amani a while back.

The issue with old daddy Proudmoore is that due to the… nature of Blizzard’s writing, especially of late, he’s been wrong for the bulk of Warcraft’s life at this point, but has been right temporarily. WC3 onward had a lot of actually nuanced and morally grey writing that hasn’t really existed in a consistent sense in the setting since maybe… Wrath, and sporadically until BfA when Blizzard’s definition of morally grey became ‘it looks cool therefore it’s nuanced’.

Kul Tiras’ perspective on the Second War isn’t misguided, that said. The Horde during the Second War was enslaving Red Dragons, burning Alliance fleets, and fielding the first Death Knights against the first Paladins. As the primary naval power of the Grand Alliance of Lordaeron, Kul Tiras lost a lot of ships and people alike (I mean, Tides of Darkness has an enslaved Red Dragon flat out nuking a Kul Tiran ship on the cover). Them viewing that war as they do is entirely in line, the Horde at the time were the aggressors, the alien conquerors. There was no real comparison to the taking of Amani lands because 1) It was 2700 years ago, a vast span of time and 2) Neither Amani nor Humans nor Elves were hopped up on Felblood and conquering the world because they’d ruined their old one.

On Daelin specifically, he was in the wrong for WC3 all the way until BfA, then he was right for a bit, then he was wrong again. My hope is that he remains wrong, because the pingpong with the Horde’s actions and morality is annoying as hell and takes away a lot of what made it such a cool faction in the first place.


BFA pretty much vindicated Daelin of WC3 even though he was supposed to be a cautionary tale of letting old hatreds ruin new friendships and peace.
Jaina and Thrall were symbols of peace and bridging this gap… but thanks to Cata, MoP and BFA we learned that Daelin was correct in his predictions all along. Jaina and Thrall offer no new solutions for why this time it is different.

We are back right where we started. Nothing has changed besides the scenery. It has a lot of ash and bones on the ground. Sure the users try to make false equivalencies and low bait troll posts like this and the other thread but this is where Warcraft is now stuck narratively and if Blizzard wants to drag themselves out of it they have to address the main problem.

You know… instead of blaming Arthas on the new Alliance from Stormwind why not blame the actual Alliance at the time… the same people from the Alliance of Lordaeron that are still shambling about in Orgrimmar.


There is no old or new alliance. Which was Anduins entire point about Arthas. It’s a continuation of the old alliance. Y’all stuck with Garithos, Daelin and Arthas.