but with out layer how will streamers explote it and get lots of leather
That’s a bad analogy here. The OP implied that just the act of removing layers would increase the queue. I’m highlighting the fact that there are other things that have to happen along with that.
It would easily be possible to remove the layers and have a stable, albeit unplayable, game, because the realm determines the population, not the layers.
As for you quick edit: That’s exactly what I’m saying. The realm total caps are the determining factor, not the layers.
He’s not technically wrong. But as soon as you have to say “technically” it gets contentious.
I’m not going to admit I’m wrong when I’m so clearly not.
they won’t. which is the point.
he is wrong though. blizzard themselves directly tied layering to queues in this post.
if layering wasn’t tied to how many people who are online, how come when layering is removed, server queues are going to skyrocket?
actually, ‘the point’ of the thread was to say if we get rid of layers, Queues will increase and it MIGHT motivate people to take those transfers to the, currently screwed, transfer servers.
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Hell, I cannot even get the other one to answer a straight up yes or no question with a yes or no.
the point of the thread? yes. the point of removing layering? no.
the point of removing layering is so its not exploitable for stuff like resources, and having multiple copies of the same world boss up.
First: I agree with your point. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
However, what isn’t said is whether or not we’re looking at a 2 step process. i.e. Remove layers, and lower realm cap to the levels they want.
You would be 100% correct if layers dynamically controlled server capacity.
We know layers dictate server capacity but if it’s not a dynamic thing with a hard cap, then technically he’s correct. They /could/ remove layers without impacting the queue… they won’t, they said they won’t, but what we don’t know is whether or not they flip a layering switch and it immediately lowers the server cap, or they flip the layer switch AND have to change the server cap manually.
It’s a technicality. He’s not ‘wrong’ specifically, he’s just wrong in practice. Removing layers WILL increase Queues on populated servers, but the act of removing layers from a technical perspective doesn’t necessarily ‘have’ to increase the queues… but it will… whcih is why we’re in this cyclic argument in the first place. lol
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Each layer likely has a cap similar to a vanilla realm cap.
Each layer on a realm with queues likely has the layers at max capacity.
When layers go away and there is technically 1 “layer” it will be at a vanilla level.
How on earth do you fail to extrapolate that multiple layers-worth of players smashed into a single “layer” at a vanilla sized cap would lead to extreme queues? How are you not getting this?
Your pizza analogy is taking a 8 slice pizza that 8 people are prepared to eat, and jamming all 8 slices together and attempting to shove it into a single piehole.
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You’re the OP, and this sentence right here is EXACTLY what I was trying to point out.
That’s all I was trying to point out.
Also not the entire point. I’d say the primary point of removing layering is to consolidate the world into a single world, like it was in Vanilla, like we all want it to be, for the community feel. That’s the primary motivator. One of the side effects of layers is the fact that they are susceptible to exploits and one of the benefits of removing them is the removal of those exploits.
Ultimately, I think the removal of layers primary ‘benefit’ is the community impact and not segmenting our realms. Everything else is icing (or more accurately, picking hairs out of our food :P)
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Because what you’re saying is not remotely what I was trying to say. The post directly below yours from OP hit the nail on the head. It is a multi-step process.
Only removing a layer and doing nothing else does not affect the total server population, which is what I was trying to explain with the pizza analogy.
The problem with the “it’s not the fall, it’s the sudden stop” analogy that’s being thrown out is that those two processes are not independent of one another. With layering, it is entirely possible to remove layers and still have the exact same population. It’s not a good idea, but it’s possible
That second step of lowering max realm capacity is required to increase queue times.
Right, but given the general mood of this community, can you understand why people might be responding to your debate points the way they are? Fact is, you don’t know if you’re right either. I know my statement is right, if they remove layering, queues will go up.
Your point being the technical process implies that layering being removed doesn’t automatically reduce server capacity and thereby wouldn’t increase queues is based on supposition. The fact is, we do not know if layer numbers dynamically control server capacity with a hard cap. It’s entirely possible that they have a single variable they can adjust that will adjust both the number of layers and the capacity of the server. Or… and I’ll admit, more likely, they have variables for every aspect that they adjust based on individual realm loads. My statement was, however, based on direct blizzard information 
(now I know I’m being pedantic but… ya know. The internet.)
Again, thank you for your tone. I appreciate you not just being an argumentative troll. Healthy debate is good debate, even if it’s over technicalities and semantics.
I’m sorry if I missed it somewhere else in the thread but- do you have any source to actually back this up? So far the only Blue confirmed information is that, explicitly, when they remove layers the queue will increase. It is true that they have increased total realm caps since release, but that happened well after the information about the layer-queue relationship. Again, sorry if I missed some critical information.
Well, all realms have the same capacity but all realms do not have the same amount of layers. Layers do not directly effect max capacity.
Though I would agree it’s all semantics at this point. They will likely lower max capacity when they remove layers.
Each layer is the size of a vanilla server. Once you only have 1 layer, it will have that server cap. How are you still not getting this?
Guy makes a fool of himself trying to be a know-it-all and is promptly exposed as being wrong by multiple people then tries to backpedal and move the goalpost on what he “meant” using all kind of mental gymnastics in the process just so he doesn’t have to admit he was wrong in his initial pretentious post
These forums are great entertainment sometimes
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I dont know. What i do THINK though, is that removing layering before a significant decrease in realm populations would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Here’s the thing, they said “We Aim for” and “We plan” and other things like that. Stuff happens, things change, and the game has to change with it. When those statements were made, they were under the weird assumption that no one was really interested in playing Classic besides a small hardcore classic fan base. What actually happened was the opposite, so far anyway.
Everyone is too married to this “The Devs PROMISED!!!”. They never promised anything, they said they are hoping and aiming and want it ot be, but they didnt promise anything.
If the words “We promise to remove layering by phase 2” was said, i missed it, and its entirely possible that i did heh.