ENH should keep chain harvest in DF. by far the coolest ability and it makes sense.
9 Likes
How does it make sense? And also I politely disagree, prim. Wave lightning bolt cleave is way more satisfying and better gameplay
3 Likes
The blood/voodoo theme kind of a cool dark branch of shamanism. but maybe its just me that thinks its cool
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They could easily make the pwave a choice with Chain Harvest with supporting subsequent talents.
4 Likes
I like chain harvest, but the theme doesn’t seem suitable to shaman aesthetics, but primordial wave doesn’t eaither, maybe a spell recolor would help. I do prefer chain harvest as an ability though, I really dont like pwave. Also its on the wrong side of the tree. It should be swapped with ascendance in my opinion.
Get rid of both. Make something that actually fits the class.
My housemate and I were talking about this. What if instead of Chain Harvest, we got a modified version of Chains of Devastation crossed with Stormkeeper.
Chainstorm
Instant, off GCD
No cost
1 minute cooldown
For the next 6 seconds Chain Heal is instant cast, costs no mana, and deals 250% increased damage, but has a 3 second cooldown. Chain Lightning is instant cast, costs no mana, and heals for 75% more, but has a 3 second cooldown. Casting Chain Heal resets the cooldown of Chain Lightning and Casting Chain Lightning resets the cooldown of Chain Heal.
And a follow-up talent to grant the Venthyr legendary effect:
Lingering stormclouds
While Chainstorm is active your Chain Lightning criticals apply Flame Shock and your Chain Heal criticals apply Riptide to their targets.
This Provides slightly more power and more flexibility than the current Chain Harvest, but does so at the expense of extra GCDs. Chain Harvest currently eats 1 GCD, but casts an equivalent of single 900% Chain Lightning to 5 targets and a 300% Chain Heal strength to 5 targets.
Base, it grants up to 4 casts. Your first one will hit for either 350% (possible + MSWx10) or heal for 175% (possible + MSWx10) followed by instant, free casts of the other. In total, this should be 4+ instant spells for a total of 700-1050% CL damage + 350-475% CH healing.
0% haste is up to 4 casts
40% haste is up to 5 casts
66% haste is up to 6 casts
86% haste is up to 7 casts
100% haste is up to 8 casts
Minimum output assuming only 5 stacks MSW for the first spell is either 1050% CL damage + 350% CH heal OR 700% CL damage + 525% CH heal over 6 sec at 0-39% haste.
Maximum output assuming only 5 stacks MSW for the first spell is either 1750% CL damage + 700% CH heal OR 1400 CL damage + 875% CH heal over 6 sec at 100% haste.
3 Likes
I would love to have the Chain Harvest for my Shaman. Currently I use it in raid healing on my resto spec and when I run ele spec it comes in pretty handy when I need just a little extra oomph.
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no, thanks.
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Absolutely agree. It’s a great way to spread flame shock, do some good burst and get your party out of a bad situation with heals. Feels way better than primordial wave. We already have lava lash to spread flame shock better than PW, and lightning bolt doesn’t work with crash lightining.
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The zandalari blood shaman existed in BFA so chain harvest fits the theme
2 Likes
Weird to completely discredit the first reason you said CH is good 2 sentences later.
Also. PW is not used primarily to spread flame shock for Enhance. There is a reason that PW is better in every way possible than CH for enhance in pushing content that is AE based.
1 Like
That does raise an actual point, though. Primordial Wave’s value is severely backloaded compared to the other capstones. Its base functionality can amount to as little as a slightly stronger Chain Lightning once every 45 seconds depending on pull sizes, all the way down to a single bonus Lightning Bolt cast on single-target encounters.
The MSW generation is kinda… eh… too. I find myself struggling to spend my MSW fast enough to prevent overcapping more often than I’m desperate to generate a full 10 stack. For that matter, I find myself hungry for just one or two more stacks to finish a 5-cast more often than I’m stuck at 0. The random nature of MSW generation being largely out of our hands makes generating MSW in large stacks undesirable, because we have minimal control to prevent overcapping in the GCD between doing so and spending it.
Splintered Elements is a disproportionate amount of PWave’s value, and it takes 4 points to get us there from the base talent. Compare how much value is frontloaded in Feral Spirits and Ascendance/DRE, and PWave is very expensive before it actually gets good. Even if those points ultimately math out to being on-par with other options, it feels really bad to be spending 4 points before the base spell actually feels worthwhile.
Either PWave needs some more of that power frontloaded into its initial functionality to put it more on par with Feral Spirits and Ascendance/DRE; Feral Spirits and Ascendance/DRE need more of their power pushed back into their follow-up talents; or PWave needs to move elsewhere in the tree.
2 Likes
I mean. Counterpoint is that CH is the same way.
Chain Harvest without Elemental Conduit / Skybreakers to spread flame shock/riptide and the massive CDR makes it meh at best as well.
Ascendance (in the form of DRE), I will agree. Is extremely front loaded. I see DRE being a staple right now at this point. 1 point for some major damage.
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Oh, I’m not at all campaigning for CH. The discussion about spreading Flame Shock not being the point of PWave just brought it to mind that the main thing we actually want PWave for is so buried behind the base talent, and that’s a problem when comparing it to Feral Spirits and Asc/DRE.
I’m especially worried about Asc/DRE being so potent from the first talent point. I absolutely hate Ascendance form, but I’m seriously afraid that it’s going to be a mandatory pick in a lot of builds because it’s so potent from the initial talent.
I don’t want to turn into some fugly skull-faced dude from a doomsday cult I slaughtered a decade ago, but talent trees mean I may not have a real choice not to.
Asc itself, imho, wont be taken unless you go deep into its augmentation talents.
DRE, though, 1 point, is so strong. It will turn into fishing for it, just for the AE from Asc form.
Would prefer chain harvest over primordial wave as resto too. But devs don’t listen to us as evidenced by 10% haste tier set and arguably the 3rd worst cov ability. Oh well, what’s new
2 Likes
Give me Fae Transfusion but fix the damage division neutering the damage with more targets.
elemental should have access to chain harvest for sure
Of the three specs elemental is the one who used chain harvest the least and was the spec who’s kit had the least interaction with chain harvest. Why in the world would ele be the one to keep chain harvest?
1 Like