He should of said majority of pugs, i have had more bad then good in there but its def doable if people can avoid things which pugs love to stand in everything.
Just keep in mind you can go to the Raiderio of everyone defending the lower kara difficulty and in most cases itâs their lowest aggregate scored dungeon by 20-30 points and theyâre just on the forums pretending itâs as easy as the other dungeons.
This really is just a debate on if its okay to have 1 dungeon harder for pugs than the others.
With all the nerfs to Wikket and a Fortified week coming up with Wikket weâll probably have a pretty good LK week anyways.
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Unless you look at mine. I timed it 7 times on monk this week in pugs. Top key was 18. Think I missed the timer in 1 total.
Just saving everyone the time trying to call my bluff. You can search logs for both Sackless-Malâganis and Shackless-Malganis.
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speaking of lower, Iâve got a 20 key on the rogue. interested in running it this evening?
Definitely interested. Donât know what Iâm doing this evening though.
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Both Karazhans are your lowest dungeons scores on your monk by over 10 points compared to the next highest dungeon on RaiderIO
And thatâs only because your workshop is lagging, itâs 30 points behind several of your other dungeons.
You are literally the example Iâm making.
Because, wait for it, Workshop and Upper are harder. You can check the tier lists on subcreation. Idk why you insist on saying âLower is xâ then when I tell you that youâre full of it, you say, âbut upperâ. Did you know they are 2 separate dungeons that just happen to share an entrance? Did find it enjoyable that it not only wasnât my lowest key on my paladin, but also wasnât the lowest on my monk that I donât push as much.
You mean freeyard and freerail depot? who wouldâve guessed that the undertuned dungeons would be higher.
Then youâre just lying about freely available data.
I just posted a bunch of logs from my runs this week. Maybe you could use them to get on my level.
edit:
I guess whatâs hilarious to me is that at first it was LK is too hard. Then I say, it really isnât. You say itâs because Iâm a god mode pally carry machine for monkeys. I post my monks name so you can see I have 7 separate runs with completely different dps in each run. Now itâs about being the lowest key, which itâs not. Then it becomes about it being 10 pts below other keys, which is a single key level. Do you ever just take the L?
I could go time a 21 on my monk right now and youâd say that I was carried or something. Anything to hold on to the idea that you were right. Gonna need binoculars for these goalposts.
I said you were competent. The god complex is coming from you. And you are the example Iâm making, but even if you werenât, the data says both Karaâs are harder. The data from 10s of thousands of runs, who cares about your toon on that scale.
Sorry for being late. Was timing a 20 on my monk to meet that goalpost. 5m under. Nearly 2 chested it. Itâs now 3rd behind the 2 actual worst keys: Upper and Workshop. Keep in mind that I never said it was the easiest of in the top 4 easiest keys. I said it wasnât dramatically overtuned or required a specific class in any slot. Simply that you canât bring monkeys.
To answer a question you asked before: The keys have never been perfectly balanced. Ever. Thereâs always 1 or 2 that are a 1 and done slog for score. Iâll name them: (Early) Cathedral (S2 Legion), SotT (Season 3 and 4 Legion), SoB (bolster), Shrine, Workshop (tyrannical), AD (S3 BFA), ToP (S1-3 SL), DoS and SD (S1 SL). LK just doesnât fit that description this season. That is tyrannical Upper and Workshop. Higher ID might fit that on fort. The tier list for ease of completion is JY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Streets > Gambit > Grimrail > ID (may change this at some point, the timer is pretty tight if you have crappy iron stars) > LK > Workshop > Upper. Anything in that mid range is consistently fun to run and anything on the top or bottom is miserable.
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Game is dying and they wonder why. No way it could be the game is not working because they keep on adding more stuff on top of stuff that is not working. (sarcasm)
PS No one cares in the real world if you can do +20 dungeons in WOW. Congratulations you can give yourself a fist bump.
Fix the mechanics blizzard. Thank you.
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so to sum up: âdoing dungeons is stupid and nobody should care about it. now please nerf these dungeons so i can do themâ
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How about me? The example you use as a gotcha is a very weak argument.
Seasons 1 through 3 had gaps of 2-3 key levels too.
You are in the worst range for m+. Honestly +10 is easier then +8 or +9 because of the stat buff
Itâs been dying since TbC.
Along these same lines, no one in the real world cares what degree you have, whatâs in your bank account, whatâs in your pants or whoâs in your bed. So as long as we agree that NOTHING matters, we can all assign value to the things we enjoy and donât need approval for them.
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Missing the point here. People are taking this thread over to pump their chest. The game is not working correctly. Sitting here stuck in a loading screen after a player put in a +13. Good times doing nothing.
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What goal posts? This feud between us is something youâve imagined. My point is that Kara is relatively harder than other dungeons - and lower is mainly harder because itâs more complicated for pugs than other dungeons (not a numerical barrier like Curator in Upper on high keys), and I believe dungeons should be relatively similar in difficulty and should be balance around that.
I think Junkyard needs the timer shorted 3-4 minutes and maybe the count on some of the trash increased.
Because I believe dungeons should be around the same difficulty. And you donât, and thatâs fine. This difference in philosophy is fine.
Thereâs no level of key youâre going to clear on your monk to meet any âgoalpostsâ Iâve set because Iâve literally never said that you specifically have any difficulty with any keys. Good for you but itâs not relevant.
But weâre not arguing if lower kara is harder than the other dungeons, because the data says that it is - both your and my opinions donât matter. Both upper and lower are outliers in difficulty, and Tyrannical workshop may be an outlier as well.
So I would say to adjust the hard dungeons down, and buff the easy ones. And someone who was an advocate of variance in dungeon difficulty would say leave them alone.
Also, I made my rant about lower kara on Thursday from my phone, while at work. And they nerfed the fight I was talking about by nerfing the exact same ability I was talking about on Thursday while I was at work. That fight feels much better now (in no thanks due to my complaining).
A am in this, completely different post, responding the authoring and saying I agree with them that the karaâs feel too hard. But I donât think lower kara is a numerical tuning issue. I think it is more complicated than dungeons are in the modern game and that generates weird friction with pugs because they donât know what to do. It also puts a lot of stress on a new tank who might already be anxious about learning dungeon routes that I donât think a dungeon needs. But lower kara has never been a huge outlier for organized groups of coordinated players.
To be clear again, I am not now, nor have I ever been, saying you canât clear a dungeon on any of your characters specifically.
I donât view you as a worthy opponent for a feud. Iâm saying that every time I prove you wrong, you change the assertion. Youâre wrong, Iâve proved you wrong at every turn. Also pretty rich that you said
And then try to claim Iâm unfairly targeting you. Or that Iâm imagining the back and forth when I have a lot of notifications that say âFerowl repliedâŚâ.
All that said,
Youâre right, but I never said it wasnât. I said that it was mid. You said it was the giga Chad key that only 2mil IQ dungeon elitists could complete with God comps. Which Iâve called stupid repeatedly. Learn the dungeon, start winning.
I havenât been able to do much the past couple of weeks because of vacation but I was able to log on my shaman today and jumped in a 21 LK. Full Pug no comms the key got DECIMATED. 10+ minutes under time. It was bizarre. Did they nerf nerf nerf this thing into the ground or what? Every potential difficult point of the dungeon was laughable. Maiden shield, moroes bleed damage, the entire beauty and the beast fightâŚ. Ok sure it needed to be tuned down but damnâŚ.
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