Classic is not vanilla. Never was, never intended to be.
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In my view there are enough elements of Vanilla to still be at least Vanilla Cream or Vanilla Swirl, but I agree that 1.12 threw people off from what it seems most people recall of vanilla.
In that case why bother with Phased approach. Just release it all in one shot.
Blizzard can’t literally turn back time
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Listen, OP. You can spend all the time you want analyzing a game that you clearly stopped liking but the rest of us are going to enjoy what we have.
WoW was never difficult. Time spent on content does not equal complexity.
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Modern client; 1.12 data. Similar to legacy runs of Rift, and LOTRO.
No way around this, hence why we likely won’t see a 1.5AV either.
Phasing required to balance expacs to 1.12 baseline.
Theoretically: it should get tougher, if they stick to their word. Remember this?
Ya, but you’re talking about a cool down on a pull, I’m saying this was the whole freaking fight. Tanks had to be topped off the entire fight and the tank was still going to die sometime during the fight if they weren’t. I was an off-tank and had to be ready at all times for when the tank went down because a good chance he was going to. My buddy was a high-end Raider that downed Sunwell and Naxx when it was current and he was a very good tank and one of the best raiders I have seen personally. I use to raid/was in the guild till partway through AQ 40, then did again in TBC. It was the sheer damage that made the content hard.
As I said 1.12 is after the buffs and overhauls which made major changes to the game which some of these trolls are purposely trying to ignore so that they can pretend like their gameplay today makes them better than the Vanilla players.
There were a lot of changes that made a difference, especially the healer changes. When you combine them and look at what you had before 1.12 is nothing like 1.4. For instance, the Innervate change was huge, previously in 1.4 only resto druids could cast it by 1.12 all druids could cast it. Mana management changed drastically for the better by 1.12 (it was easier). Huge healer buffs new talents that did not exist when MC was current, there are so many buffs and fixes that 1.12 has which was not there in MC. Those trying to say the last patch of the Xpac is the same as 1.3 is just absurd.
Tranquility - Cooldown reduced to 5 minutes. Mana cost reduced by 25%.
Paladins can now learn Greater Blessings
All Greater Blessings now have increased range.
New Spell: Righteous Fury (level 16) - Increases the threat generated by the Paladin’s Holy attacks by 60%. Lasts 30 minutes.
Holy Shield - Tooltip updated to reflect that damage caused by Holy Shield causes 20% additional threat. This has been active since 1.9, but was undocumented.
Blessing of Wisdom - Mana regeneration over time will no longer generate threat.
Shard bags
You will no longer lose your current target when affected by a crowd control spell
You are no longer kept in combat while on auto-attack at long range.
Healing Touch - Mana cost on all ranks reduced approximately 9%.
Gift of the Wild - Range and area of effect increased.
Nature’s Swiftness - Now makes Rebirth and Soothe Animal spells instant cast.
Bestial Wrath - No longer generates threat for the Hunter.
Lay on Hands - Range increased.
Divine Intervention - Range increased.
Desperate Prayer (Dwarf/Human) - Cooldown reduced.
Heal - Ranks 2, 3, and 4, cast time reduced to 3 seconds. Rank 1 mana cost dropped approximately 9%. Rank 2, 3, and 4 the healing amount has been reduced to generate the same amount of healing per cast time as before the cast time was reduced. Rank 2, 3, and 4, the mana cost was reduced to cost approximately 9% less mana per point of healing generated. The net effect on all ranks is that the healing per mana is 10% higher, the cast time is limited to 3 seconds, and the healing per second is unchanged. Note that spells with less than 3.5 second cast time will not receive the full bonus from plus healing items.
Greater Heal - Cast time reduced to 3 seconds. Healing and Mana cost reduced so that the healing per second is unchanged, but the healing per mana is increased approximately 10%. Note that spells with less than 3.5 second cast time will not receive the full bonus from plus healing item
Holy Nova - Self cooldown on this spell removed. Mana cost increased.
Healing Wave - Mana cost on all ranks reduced approximately 9%.
Logging back in after a disconnect from the server has been greatly improved, and players should now rarely receive the message “A character with that name already exists.”
Temporary item buffs (e.g. poisons, sharpening stones and shaman weapon buffs) will persist through zoning or logging out.
Periodic Healing: Spells which do periodic healing will now have their strength determined at the moment they are cast. Changing the amount of bonus healing you have during the duration of the periodic spell will have no impact on how much it heals for.
Innervate: This spell is now a base ability for all Druids, trainable at level 40. Any Druid who formerly had the Innervate talent now has the Swiftmend talent instead.
Swiftmend: This new talent has been added to the Druid Restoration tree, replacing Innervate as the 31 point ultimate talent. It consumes a Rejuvenation or Regrowth aura to produce an instant heal.
Healing-over-time spells should now be improved by “+Healing” items when cast on other players.
These are just some of the changes, that did not exist in MC, and there is a HUGE amount that I did not list.
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I saw one guard tank him like it was nothing, never falling below half health nothing. Stitches is a wimp now.
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The bigger problem imho is lack of any citation.
Hey if the classic difficulty isn’t up to snuff I guarantee there are Mythic guilds looking for fresh blood and self motivated players.
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Ever see a warrior tank get one shot on the pull in the last 10 years? Ever see the tank go from full HP to dead in full Current Tier gear on the 3rd boss of a raid because that boss hit so hard?
Just from BfA i can think of Fetid Devourer, Opulence and Orgozoa
The difficulty was that 1 mistake most of the time can wipe the raid and trying to get 40 people to do everything correctly without mistake was hard.
Ask anyone that raided Tomb of Sargeras if the “1 mistake causes a wipe” thing has gone away completely
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I think not Brenda, in 2004 this was all brand new, nobody had a clue what they were doing.
This time around people are diving into 15 year old mechanics with 15 years of WoW experience, of course it’s easier.
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The pretzel-like mental gymnastics will surpass even OP in time.
People have a LOT of mental investment riding on years and years of claiming that Vanilla was the Dark Souls of MMOs and taking a giant dump on anyone who disagreed.
Expect the cognitive dissonance to rise to a fever pitch before they allow reality to influence their thought processes.
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People realize that people have been playing this game, Classic, for years and years. The mechanics of the fights are not difficult. The raids are not difficult. What made them hard was going into there with zero knowledge and more than likely 20 idiots in every raid making it more difficult.
That is simply not true.
The raids are not at their pre-bc state.
If they where druids would be viable and have ToL. As well as LFG stones working.
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And so now we are arguing about how Classic isn’t really Classic enough. I just roll my eyes at crap like this.
There is a segment of these Classic zealots where it will never be good enough.
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I don’t understand what the issue is here. That Blizzard was somehow supposed to release version 1.0 of Vanilla with no nerfs from subsequent patches ever but also put in content that came in subsequent patches? Or somehow find the one patch that was the hardest by consensus and only run that patch?
The thing is, patch 1.12 is what Blizzard considers the definitive version of Vanilla. Where bugs were fixed, itemization was where it should be, and damage was where they wanted it. Didn’t most private servers also run 1.12? If not 1.12, what patch then?
This is a fifteen-year-old game. Everyone has far more knowledge than they did in 2004 when it was new. Raiders are far more experienced from years of handling more complex mechanics from the modern game. Of course bosses are going to fall quicker than back in 2004. And players will level faster. And our memories of Vanilla as the end-all of hard content in WoW’s history are probably faulty to some degree.
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Exactly right! 3 types of players in WoW:
- Adventurers (includes questors, crafters, social groups, RP)
- PvPers (includes twinks, duelists, BG repeaters)
- LvL Cappers (includes raiders and dungeon repeaters, speed runners, etc)
Plenty of room for all 3 I think - but I agree with you that Classic does not have to be pure vanilla to be able to enjoy the vanilla feelings again. (Not too much of that for Adventurers left in current retail … but I still, when short on time, will play some of my current retail toons, too.)
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[quote=“Velquez-moon-guard, post:1, topic:280667, full:true”] Just so you know we’re playing nerfed Classic
[/quote]
All I’m getting is “this doesn’t match my rose colored glasses”
Yea I didn’t know what a zepplin was when I first played back in classic, you know how big a difference that is to playing the game now for me?
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They removed some quests. There are quests that used to be in early wow that are no longer there in 1.12. This reduced the amount of time you spent questing.
Survival rate is vastly improved because aggro range and once aggro mobs are no longer aggro, rendering pack mobs pointless, ones that were once a danger because of aggro adds etc. You used to have to make suicide pulls to loot a quest item real fast or form a party to complete objectives on normal quests, and some you had to skip because you wanted to solo and couldn’t do.
Leveling is much faster, downtime is reduced. This cut total time played by 30%
You’re getting to end game 30% faster than before patch 1.12.
3 Likes