I think honestly a lot of my bitterness is in the fact that acro’s range shouldn’t have been deleted and removed. It should have just been deleted and made baseline.
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Acro should have been a talent again maybe further down the tree but outright deletion is dumb. Same with MFD which was a valuable PVE DPS tool but also for utility in PVP and soloing.
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I don’t mean to keep re-litigating this guys but as an example of why I think face tanking mobs sound improbable to me is because I tried a T10 delve where Nightfall Executors were hitting me for 900k a swing on basic melee attacks. Two of them killed me in less then 4 secs with the following recap:
Melee (Nightfall Executor) 967,864
Melee (Nightfall Executor) 839,876
Melee (Nightfall Executor) 746,933
Stab (Nightfall Executor) 1,182,823
Melee (Nightfall Executor) 853,053
I say this with love, there is no way you are NOT tricking onto Brann or Vanishing on Brann or kitting. This is not damage you can face tank as a Rogue. The above happened specifically because I had another mishap with ToT not working. I even sapped the big enemy in the group.
Look if you have to use all your CDs every fight, Blind, Vanish, Evasion, etc then just say that. But don’t try to present it as if there isn’t a very obvious discrepancy between Rogues and other classes (if the reports about them just face tanking these delves is true).
Because I feel like I’m being gaslighted here.
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It’ll be better when it’s off the GCD.
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I agree rofue needs rework. Outlaw should be a ranged class with DW hand crossbows/ pistols
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I was doing t8 at like 570s fine. Rogue has felt better than Evoker or druid but part of that is I main rogue so I’m more comfortable with it.
I think going above 8s you def need a bit of gear but if you know what you’re doing there’s no reason why you can’t play at the highest level.
Other classes may very well generally be better. But at some point you have to consider it honestly maybe a skill issue. And rogues have always been more complex to play than a paladin.
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If you like Ret, i suggest you also try out Frost DK.
Also very straight forward & easy to play with great CDs.
Anti Magic Shell is a huge defensive on a short CD.
Glad you are enjoying Ret!
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I played a rouge then entire TBC. Came back back after a decade and now it just not flow anymore. Those that can get it to work, good for you. With three dps specs you would think one would focus on steady damage instead of all being burst.
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So I kept trying the T10 delve and I kept having a weird thing happen. ToT would not consistently redirect aggro and even Vanishing would not drop aggro. The enemy would just keep attacking me with no interruptions. They wouldn’t even lose aggro and switch to Brann. They behaved as if I hadn’t Vanish at all.
These things basically stonewalled my attempt on my Rogue. For obvious reasons.
Have any of you guys experienced this?
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Yup. I used to think it was some mobs not having aggro tables but attacking the nearest player, but I think it seems more random rather than only being certain mobs…
Was noticeably worse when Brann was set to DPS but don’t know if that really makes any difference.
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try pressing feint. dks and pally maybe pressing their drs. rogues also have the best dr in the game
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Auto attack would be the only concern I believe. Maybe aoe, but even the aoe seems to have a greater range than most melee.
I have a few 80s and play a DK/war/pal and absolutely ret is cheats when it comes to plate melee. There’s no rush to get back to the MLB, etc. I can just jump around casting most of my spells and still wrecking meters from 20 war melee boxes away.
I get melee, but like, that 2h weapon is like 8 feet tall. Can they really not extend that range a little? Make everything a giant raid boss hitbox, haha.
Idk how to fix, but you’re absolutely right.
I’m sure feint was on.
As a rogue you quite literally do need feint to survive anything in M+ for anything above a 9.
This is simply untrue. Like to a degree that’s wild to say. Any Prot spec obviously has better DR. They have to. But let’s assume you are speaking only about DPS. Warriors can switch into a stance that just gives them a 15% DR. This stance last until cancelled. You have to wait 3 seconds to switch out of it.
My Rogue with 30 more ilvls then my Warrior has less armor. About 12% less physical DR as a result.
I did a 2:41 sec test on a training dummy where I did nothing but use Feint on CD to test uptime. I manage to get a 44% uptime. Which isn’t bad but you got to admit is less then 100% uptime. And this was with me taking basically every Feint talent available. So extra charge and reduced energy cost.
I think Rogues have good DR because we have such excellent “oh @$!#” DR. For short periods of time we can become very durable but you better hope the problem is gone after that or else you’re getting splattered.
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Never ceases to amazing me how the forums work. One day you will get nothing but “My class sucks and needs a buff” and I mean you will get flamed hard for saying “Na, it’s ok”. Then the very next day you can say “My class is fine it’s a L2P problem” and you will get flamed hard and the forums will say “It needs a buff”.
Back about 2 weeks ago there was nothing in the Rogue forum but people complaining how bad rogues were, how rogue was bottom tier. It was flame city if you pointed out (out the time) Combat was in the top 5. Now we got people saying the exact opposite and telling people they don’t know how to play if they say they can’t compete with a Pali. That fellow has got to be as confused as can be. One day everyone agreed with him and the next he’s being told L2P.
Got to love the internet.
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lol it’s fine. Been playing 17 years now (maybe 18, I stopped counting). I’ve finished many seasons as NA top 5 Assassination rogue in M+. A few #1 realm (and I play on a good realm). I’m used to it.
I don’t let anything anyone says get me down. I just like to share my thoughts in the event that someone at Blizz does actually read the forums and values my input.
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Yea because dr on a dps in this game totally is about the uptime… think about it for a second.
The issue with Ret being the easy beginner spec is that I can do maybe 80% of my rogue’s sim damage as Assa on most single-target fights. I’m not yet that familiar with where I can squeeze more uptime but honestly I’m happy with how I do. It feels okay.
On my Ret however I can do 90%+ of the sim dps, and it’s INFINITELY less of a hassle. The only thing I really miss is shadowstepping mechanics and so on, but the fact it’s so much easier and less burdened by say, staying in melee range is an immense boon. It doesn’t help that it also sims very close to Assa at the moment.
Yes I know, sims are sims and not actual gameplay but if in idealised sim conditions Assassination isn’t that far ahead from Ret and Ret has less problems with squeezing out any uptime due to mechanics then it’s an actual issue with spec design.
Assa is the easier Rogue spec but it’s still more involved than Ret, and it performs… roughly the same on a target dummy single target spankfest?
Why is the spec that has to properly manage it’s resources and has a very binary uptime situation (0 - you’re not in range so you do almost no damage, 1 - you’re in range and you can apply your damage) only a few % above the VERY EASY spec in potential throughput?
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There are plenty of times when uptime on your DR as a DPS is meaningful. One such instance might by Delves. Which is the content this thread is circling. But it’s hardly the only thing. It has been mentioned elsewhere in the Rogue forums how people feel like their Rogues in particular are squishy. Fighting mobs in the over world, the ability to take elites, etc.
This is related to Rogue DR. And it almost certainly influences how many people play the class and in what content.
All this to say I don’t think people are just imagining their Rogues are squishy. Rogues are squishy.
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