Jaina is a hypocrite complaining about a bomb

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

The excuse that somehow the horde and alliance have both done a fair share of wrong is ridiculous.

No it isn’t, that’s objectively true.

[Vaelorith-proudmoore]

I disagree with some of them too, but it took me literally ten seconds to google and skim over it when this guy is trying to say everything the Alliance does is good.

The poster you replied to never said that. They said the Alliance hasn’t blown up/burned down a city/island full of civilians. They never said the Alliance always does the “good” thing.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

They said the Alliance hasn’t blown up/burned down a city/island full of civilians.

Say it with me, kids.

Taurajo.

[Synaeia-proudmoore]

No, we’re not actually. Here’s the “please surrender” dialogue that the Horde sees:

"King Rastakhan of Zandalar…I order you to submit! You will bow before your new master, King Anduin Wrynn, and you will deliver your daughter to us as a hostage!"

Does that look like a reasonable chance to surrender to you?

Here’s what you see:

"King Rastakhan of Zandalar… On behalf of the Alliance, and in the name of King Anduin Wrynn, I hereby request your surrender."

More reasonable? yes. Still a completely unreasonable request from a faction that simply invaded their city without any sort of formal declaration of war? Hell yes.

We do not know if that first one is canon or not. I looked it up (because I haven’t played a Horde character at max yet) and it’s just told by Otoye, from what I’m reading. So again, not accurate to reality.

[Vaelorith-proudmoore]

We do not know if that first one is canon or not. I looked it up (because I haven’t played a Horde character at max yet) and it’s just told by Otoye, from what I’m reading. So again, not accurate to reality.

Yeah, the Horde version isn’t canon. The Alliance version is, as they were the ones who were really there.

[Tabaqui-wyrmrest-accord (Tabaqui)]

The Horde and the Zandalari are allies. The Zandalari has fought against the Alliance. That makes their navy a target.

Not really, at that point in the storyline, we’re doing them favors and trying to woo them to our side. Rastakhaan was smart enough to know to keep us dangling on a string doing work for him while he “considered” whether to ally with us.

The Alliance kidnapped and imprisoned Talanjii without any reason for doing so, and had her scheduled for execution. She was literally off seeking help. Imprisoning and killing Zul would be justified, we know he’s done bad stuff in-game constantly. But Talanjii was seeking aid. We’re providing it.

If “the Zandalari have fought against the Alliance so they’re a valid target” is true, then Theramore is exactly as valid.

They’re Jaina’s people. And Jaina is one of the leaders of the Alliance. So of course we’re going to aid them if we want the Kul’tirans in the Alliance.

Barely. Jaina betrayed them and there’s a huge questline in Kul’Tiras to get them to trust her again.

Jaina’s not a “leader of the Alliance.” She’s one of Anduin’s friends. She’s a former Kirin Tor archmage. She holds no position in the Alliance except that people listen to her. She ditched your king and his troops in the middle of the assault on the Broken Shore and went to do her own thing the whole xpac.

You basically just admitted you attacked the Zandalari solely because you “want the Kul’tirans in the Alliance.”

We didn’t decide to assassinate him - that is you being disingenuous. Assassinate implies by stealth and underhandedness. We attacked the city and he was given a choice. He chose to fight to the death.

That’s you being disingenuous. You invaded his thousands-of-years-old city, and then came at him and demanded he surrender, then you blame him when he chooses to fight? You attacked his city without any sort of declaration of war, you drew his warriors away and then ransacked the treasury, killed the priesthood and then demanded he surrender. Wow, that’s definitely not an assasination. /s

And Theramore and the Horde were always in truce. The attack came out of nowhere.
Attacking Theramore gained them nothing.

Theramore was never in truce with the Horde. It was ALWAYS an active Alliance military installation. Jaina personally wanted neutrality, she personally was friends with both Anduin and Thrall. That didn’t make Theramore NOT a military target.

Oh and hey. The Zandalari certainly hadn’t invaded Alliance cities or declared war on the Alliance, and there was a whole set of priests and guards killed in the attack on Dazra’alor… so that attack is different… how?

Attacking Dazra’alor “gained you nothing.” All you did was take the king who was letting us dangle off the throne and drive the Zandalari into a formal alliance with the Horde because they now hate you so much.

[Tabaqui-wyrmrest-accord (Tabaqui)]

We do not know if that first one is canon or not. I looked it up (because I haven’t played a Horde character at max yet) and it’s just told by Otoye, from what I’m reading. So again, not accurate to reality.

What you asked was, “are we playing the same raid?” The answer is no. We’re shown a different demand than you are, one that is completely arrogant and unreasonable.

And I included both, so saying “that’s not accurate to reality” makes no sense.

And I maintain that BOTH demands are completely unreasonable and aren’t meant to be taken seriously./

[Synaeia-proudmoore]

Not really, at that point in the storyline, we’re doing them favors and trying to woo them to our side. Rastakhaan was smart enough to know to keep us dangling on a string doing work for him while he “considered” whether to ally with us.

You’re splitting hairs. The Zandalari and the Horde were in-effect allies. They were doing work for the Zandalari to gain favor so they’d be their allies. It makes perfect sense, in an established war setting, to separate your enemy from their allies or potential allies.

The Alliance kidnapped and imprisoned Talanjii without any reason for doing so, and had her scheduled for execution. She was literally off seeking help.

Yeah, she was seeking help to the Horde to negotiate an alliance, lol. So I don’t think it’s true to say she was imprisoned for nothing.

Barely. Jaina betrayed them and there’s a huge questline in Kul’Tiras to get them to trust her again.

Not barely. They are definitely Jaina’s people even if she was banished or whatever.

Jaina’s not a “leader of the Alliance.” She’s one of Anduin’s friends. She’s a former Kirin Tor archmage. She holds no position in the Alliance except that people listen to her.

Uhh what? Jaina is definitely considered a “leader” in the sense that people listen to her, like you said. That’s the definition of a leader, lol - “the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.” I’d say people listening to you qualifies as being a leader, but I digress.

That’s you being disingenuous. You invaded his thousands-of-years-old city, and then came at him and demanded he surrender, then you blame him when he chooses to fight?..Wow, that’s definitely not an assasination. /s

Nobody demanded anything. He was asked to surrender and he didn’t. And we invaded his city because he’s a powerful force that is aiding our allies. And no, by definition, it’s not an assassination.

Theramore was never in truce with the Horde. It was ALWAYS an active Alliance military installation. Jaina personally wanted neutrality, she personally was friends with both Anduin and Thrall. That didn’t make Theramore NOT a military target.

Actually, yes it was in truce with the Horde. I don’t know if you operate on a different reality where things mean differently than they are, but in my book if you’re good friends with the leader of a rival nation - that’s a truce.

Attacking Dazra’alor “gained you nothing.” All you did was take the king who was letting us dangle off the throne and drive the Zandalari into a formal alliance with the Horde because they now hate you so much.

It did gain us something. The Zandalari are weakened and not as strong as they could have been. The Princess might not be as an effective leader as her father.

What you asked was, “are we playing the same raid?” The answer is no. We’re shown a different demand than you are, one that is completely arrogant and unreasonable.

And I included both, so saying “that’s not accurate to reality” makes no sense.

And I maintain that BOTH demands are completely unreasonable and aren’t meant to be taken seriously./

First of all, I didn’t say that.

Second of all, it’s not accurate to reality because the Alliance players were actually there! Us being there to hear what was said trumps a second-hand reporting of what was said.

[Nerethra-nagrand (Nerethra)]

the fact is for those horde fights as horde, its a 2nd hand account of what happened. the alliance side is the canon story for that event

[Mightylink-shadowsong (Mightylink)]

Ya the alliance did that… several years later! Horde did it first.

[Nerethra-nagrand (Nerethra)]

right. taurajo. the one where the alliance let the civilians through their line and the horde killed the leader and the rogue elements as payback. that taurajo.

[Tabaqui-wyrmrest-accord (Tabaqui)]

right. taurajo. the one where the alliance let the civilians through their line and the horde killed the leader and the rogue elements as payback. that taurajo.

Yeah except that’s NOT what happened in Taurajo. Take a look in the Southern Barrens next time you’re pretending to play Horde. There’s a whole questline about how the Alliance waited til the warriors were gone, then surrounded the place and slaughtered it, about how some of the civilians managed to get out carrying children but most didn’t, and there’s a huge trail of tauren bodies leading from Taurajo to the Southern Barrens that you have to try and keep the hyenas from eating.

[Nerethra-nagrand (Nerethra)]

yeah no, the alliance let the civilians through their lines but the hired mercs torched the town. not deflecting blame, that’s still on the alliance, not to mention those gaps led straight to quilboar territory so oh well. still, the alliance didn’t massacre those at taurajo and hell in the grand scheme of things, is peanuts compared to theramore, teldrassil, stonetalon, ashenvale, darkshore, what garrosh did to the darkspear just to name a few. but sure, keep going on about taurajo

[Mahuot-illidan]

The Alliance took out military targets and executed extreme precision. The Horde took out men, women and children in an indiscriminate sneak attack.

[Sanshunter-hyjal (Sanshunter)]

How is your pic just a red background?

[Tilra-the-scryers (Tilra)]

I just give up on understanding some of you horde guys. So I’ll just leave some refreshments for those trying to argue with you guys.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

Gotta love how they deflect and deny when they lack any counter-argument.

[Dorp-emerald-dream]

Today I learned that a camp with a population of 10 tauren was a massacre everyone, despite being evacuated beforehand.

Theramore, Stonetalon, Southshore, Gilneas and Teldrassil where 50 000 unknowing civilians where burnt to death pale in comparison to the atrocity known as Taurajo, where ~7 tauren soldiers died protecting their camp.

[Symbioserous-tanaris (Symbioserous)]

Hehe and you thought this expansion was about your failing leadership.

No its about Jaina. First she saves Boralus and sends the losers into the arms of the horde. Then she ransacks Zandalari.

Cant wait to see what she does next.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

despite being evacuated beforehand.