Jaina is a hypocrite complaining about a bomb

Community General Discussion
41

As the local Male Human Paladin, I would like to clear up and explain that not only was Theramore a Legitimate Military Target, but its destruction was actually a brilliant strategy by Garrosh, and executed in a way that shows political cunning, and the desire to wage a war to kill as few civilians as possible, while still winning.

At any time, Garrosh could have sent the Goblin Zeppelin with the Mana-Bomb over Theramore, it would have arrived with no warning and with nobody being able to stop it before it dropped its payload.

Instead, Garrosh made overt moves towards Theramore, knowing that the close relationship forged during Thrall’s leadership between Theramore and several members of his own Leaders would divide their loyalties, and result in the attack being leaked to the Alliance.

This gave the Alliance plenty of time to evacuate the innocent, and brought political pressure to reinforce the City not only as a major logistical base on Kalimdor, but a place where a stand could be made. Elite troops and high ranking leadership would be dispatched to defend the City.

Garrosh then attacked conventionally in order to draw their eyes to his main forces, leading attacks personally, and risking his own life in order to provide credence to the deception.

For that, I do respect Garrosh’s character at that time. I doubt, however, that he could understand the full destructive rammifications of the Mana-bomb when empowered with the focusing iris. He was looking for a weapon that could destory the base, and likely would not have understood the full effects of it.

It was similar to what Sylvanas attempted with Teldrassil, but the end results were the exact opposite.

Theramore wiped out the Alliance High command and many of their elite troops, and destroyed their primary Logistics base in Kalimdor. Preventing supplies from reaching Stonetalon and Ashenvale overland, and allowing the Warsong and Kor’kron to regroup and recover from being pushed out of Ashenvale by the Sentinels and establishing the infrastructure we destroyed as part of Vol’jin’s rebellion.

Teldrassil broke the Sentinels, but no other major Alliance forces and it also galvanized the remaining Alliance forces into a mentality of fighting to the Death, and unlocked the potential for retaliation and the desire for vengeance.

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42

And even at that she came pretty close to becoming “Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds”

She had to be talked down from turning Orgrimar into flooded ruins.

43

She set us up the bomb.

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44

Okay, this right here tells me your opinion should be entirely discarded. You are waaaay behind.

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45

Sooooooooo, wiping out 80% of the Night Elf/Gilnean population isn’t genocide?
Not to mention, destroying an ancient magic tree that’s pretty crucial to Azeroth.

Sure wish I could get rid of all you disgusting money-grubbing Goblins. Maybe when the Mecha-Gnomes come into play.

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46

I never got this. A bomb is a bomb is a bomb. If the bomb used was the big one from Stonetalon would Jaina be like “Fair enough mate, properly rused me.” Hell if the Horde had won conventionally would that be better? All the people who were dead would be dead. Was it the statues after the blast? Would it have been better if it was blood and gore?

47

Being angry over having a bomb dropped on your city does not make you a hypocrite. Quit talking out your butt.

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48

it was neutral though :roll_eyes:

the plan was avoid harming civilians and only kill what was required to kill king.

theramore killed militia member and civilians both.

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49

I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not, but in the event that you are…

Attacking a small city acting as a port for funneling troops and supplies into your territory is not genocide, no matter how bold, large, or how much of the sentence is in caps. It’s also factually inaccurate to say that a lot of citizens died due to this section of “Tides of War”:

Granted these are summaries and not ripped word for word from the source, but it proves it wasn’t genocide as you’d desperately have people believe. All that was left in the city were soldiers and those that wished to remain behind to support the war effort; in this case, people that could be considered militia.

In the event you’re not being serious… ignore me. :stuck_out_tongue:

Then again, this would be aimed at those that think genocide did happen at Theramore and a lot of ‘innocents’ did die.

(my quote apparently broke in editing this mess… >.> )

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50

Northwatch Hold.
Theramore Highway.
Fort Triumph.

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51

again. not IN the city of theramore v_v
those were outposts.
sure, the militia used it, but it was to defen the lands. never to press attack. (as Jaina, the ruler of said place, was agaisnt fighting horde)

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52

So killing a leader and some sailors and destroying some ships is the same is obliterating every single person in Theramore :roll_eyes:

You must be pretty limber with all those mental gymnastics you practice all the time

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53

Theramore is not and never ever was neutral.

Jaina personally wanted peace between the Horde and Alliance, but Theramore was THE largest Alliance military fortification and port city on Kalimdor. It moved goods and military through constantly. It reinforced Northwatch. At NO TIME was Theramore neutral.

Theramore had time to evacuate civilians and got most of them out. Jaina didn’t give civilians time to evacuate Dazra’alor, NOR was she going to give any warning when she was planning to flood Orgrimmar (til her boyfriend talked her out of it.)

Just because Sylvanas was wrong for burning the Tree doesn’t make Jaina NOT a hypocrite.

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54

You can’t possibly think theramore and dazar’alore are remotely the same thing; it’s like comparing apples and oranges.

All actions taken during war are terrible for the loss of life. However dazar’alore was a calculated invasion of the city with the goal of taking out rastikan. The alliance pushed into the city completed the objective… and then they just left. They didn’t bomb anything or go out of their way to do excessive damage to the city. They even decided not to press their new advantage to give the zandalari time to grieve.
At theramore garrosh simply erased they city from the map. Many civilians and military personel disappeared in an instant, and no dont give me that but the civilians were helping so they are militia crap. Economies run off the backs of civilians meaning the resources militaries use to prosecute their wars are supplied by civilians so they all contribut in some way; the civilians at theramore at not special in this way.

So is dazar’alore a terrible act of war, of course. Does it make jaina a hippocrit, not at all. Even drivin in part by a sense of vengence she would not needlessly seek to end the lives of her enemies.

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55

That right there… that’s the definition of a military target. You can’t try to wriggle out of “military target” saying we never intended to attack with it. It was a staging point. It was funneling supplies and soldiers to other fronts. It has soldiers and militia in it. That destroys its neutrality. Irrevocably and permanently.

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56

The horde don’t own kalimdor.

Theramore was a nuetral city of refugees ruled by jaina. Whom until gary attacked her was always nuetral. She was always going out of her way to help the horde.

She setup fair trade agreements and saved grom from his demonic corruption in theramore.

The only reason alliance forces moved into theramore was at the request of jaina due to gary’s aggression. As well as kirintor forces because of thier friendly relationship with jaina.

The hordes ground forces should have refused garys orders to attack theramore at all. And technically gary sent his ground forces on a sucide attack. They lost. And it was gary’s plan to nuke the city. He wanted a large number of forces to gather there on purpose.

Gary latter killed his own people who disaproved of his methods.

Of course had the sunreavers not stolen the iris theramore would not have fallen.

Gary should have never been pulled out of nagrand. Cairne or voljin deserved warchief when thrall stepped down.

But thrall was too buisy hero worshipping grom to use his head.

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57

Theramore was certainly a legitimate military target (and most definitely not neutral), as was Dazar’alor. But Alliance attack on Dazar’alor was a surgical strike intended to cripple the Zandalari war machine and drive a wedge between them and the Horde. They succeeded decisively in the former goal and failed miserably on the latter. Civilians were also not deliberately attacked with the focus being on Zandalari military and leadership. Sure they likely got caught in the crossfire, but civilians weren’t targets.

The mana bomb on Theramore was indiscriminate and wiped away that site from existence in its entirety. It killed anyone there with no regard for if the people leftover were soldiers or civilians. Worse yet, Garrosh’s forces captured fleeing civilians; torturing and murdering them for no reason than his True Horde’s sick pleasure. It was also telling that Garrosh not only kept the mana bomb a secret from the other Horde leaders until it was too late to stop, but also had representatives from other Horde races murdered if they protested against his plans.

So we can call Jaina a hypocrite if she used a mana bomb on Dazar’alor, captured fleeing Zandalari civilians, and forced them to fight to the death in the streets of Boralus so their children could be fed by their Alliance captors. But until then, nah son.

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58

Again, quit being dramatic. Fiction != reality.
Good God people are so prone to pearl clutching these days.

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59

That would only be the case if she was talking to Garrosh. Baine, who warned her of the incoming attack long before it happened shouldn’t be the target of her rage. As boring as he is as a Horde character imo, he has done nothing at all offensive in relation to the Alliance. He’s pretty much cow-Anduin.

60

what is there to be a hypocrite about? She doesn’t trust the horde and saw this as another threat meant to take her down when she was willing to give some trust.

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