They haven’t allowed max pop higher, they have allowed max pop higher WITH layering. queue times would be quadruple what they are now if they restricted the max pop.
Layering needs to be removed from Dungeons. Dungeons are instances, aren’t they rolled out for a party? Why would layering be needed for unique instances. Instances already are a ‘layer’ sort of.
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So you think you can suddenly pull the plug and have one layer with thousands of players over the ~3k limit we had in vanilla and everything will just work out?
It’s crowded even with layering.
No, you won’t. https://www.wowhead.com/news=295075/classic-wow-realm-population-report-data-aggregated-through-community
Click and expand all server data. No server has a population small enough that one layer would work out currently. Many are 10-20x+ too large for one layer.
No, they were not.
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That’s actually an important part of the Classic experience. Zones are supposed to be crowded, resources are supposed to be fought over.
If you don’t want that, then you should roll on a low pop server.
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Makes no difference.
The correct thing for them to do, would have been to have way more servers with realistic pop caps, followed by server merges if/when the pops dropped too low.
That was the solution they should have used in retail years ago instead of CRZ, and it was the solution they needed to use here.
The queues are a symptom of undefined population caps, not enough servers on launch, and layering.
OP, respectfully, you have come to your conclusion not by witnessing any examples of layering being an issue, but by an imagined (but well meaning and very nice) thought of having even more people to play this awesome game and be around to share the experience.
Speaking for myself, I have also noticed more people around, and I also assume it to be in part due to the natural progression of the server, as well as a probably slow reduction in the number of layers over time.
I have also not seen any exploits personally, haven’t seen anyone disappear in front of me or any other odd behavior. Once I invited a friend to party and he did appear in front of me as he must have been on another layer, but in this case “witnessing” layering in action was not detrimental to game play, and since then we have always been able to see each other out of party.
My opinion is that layering has been largely an invisible force keeping the servers stable and populated in a healthy manner.
I understand that the system needs to be temporary, but I have no complaints personally since it is largely invisible to me.
Most of the “problems” I see are specifically on the forums. Seeing as blizzard confirmed that much of these concerns are overblown or outright fake (screenshots of banks filled with rare and valuable items), I’m really not worried about it.
For people with server queues, I recommend taking the free transfers so you can play. The longer those people delay this, the harder it will be to cope with it as you will be ever more invested in your character or guild or server community.
It’s not too late to move.
No, that would have been highly stupid and awful.
Some servers have 60-100k people on them currently. A vanilla server had 3k. Each one of those servers would require 20-30 separate additional vanilla sized servers to accommodate all of those people.
Even with just the small number of servers we have it was a nightmare trying to get multiple groups of friends onto the same server. Now take that cluster of fail and add 100+ additional servers to accommodate the current population. Then, as many servers become low pop and awful, they’ll have to wait around as Blizzard decides which servers to merge? Anyone who thinks that would have been a better plan simply hasn’t thought it through.
Edit: With the wowhead total estimate it would actually require over 730 realms, but the estimate is probably total characters not total players, so I’m sure the actual number is much lower since some people have multiple alts and they’re not all online at the same time.
It’s 100% neccessary on some servers, like Arugal, where there is one person for every quest mob spawn in any given area during peak time.
I recently gave up, after hopping on 3 seperate layers, on the Bloodsail questline in Tanaris, because every single layer was jam-packed with people tripping over themselves to get the mobs.
I get the break in immersion, but it’s not going to solve the problem of overcrowding, and that’s a bigger issue.
Too many people > TOo much server load > Can’t play the game anyways.
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Actually that makes all the difference. Your argument is that realms are overpopulated because of the higher cap than vanilla, but layering enforces that cap within the layers, making the cap identical.
The cap was there before, thus the long queue times. So they removed the cap and used layering. That’s not two different issues that’s the same issue.
Agreed. They should start banning everyone exploiting raids and instances. It’s an open secret that everyone knows is going on, yet it continues to be allowed to persist.
They have already hotfixed this. At least, according to them anyway. There’s no way to quickly drop in and out of layers now.
Hold on…
Can we can agree that classic is a project dedicated recreating the original game, and that a massive part of the original game was the server communities?
If you have 10-20 times the population of the original servers, those types of communities will not exist. There are also other implications as I mentioned before of ridiculously high server pops that layering does nothing for.
That being the premise, if the demand is there for x number of servers, then x number of servers are required. No realm should ever have been permitted to reach 15,000 players let alone 100,000. What happens when layering is turned off? If even half that number are still there, the server will be unplayable due to sheer numbers of characters in every zone. If they reduce the in-game pop cap to mitigate that, there will be astronomical queues and people will not be able to play their characters, with the only solution left being to add more servers and offer transfers…which they’re already doing.
Who wants to try and convince their whole guild and their friends to all move after months of playing?
The whole argument for layering was/is based on the expectation/gamble that 70%+ of the population is going to stop playing by phase 2. If that doesn’t happen, it’s going to be a big old mess.
Regardless, we have layering and massive server pops so time will tell.
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Wow, so I went away for a bit and this blew up (so odd which things you post end up being the ones people converse over).
Honestly, like I said, I’m not hyper-negative about layering. I recognize its necessity, but on my server? I mean, we’re tiny. At peak, we hit medium, and we’ve noticed layering happen less and less. It’s RARE now that a guildie and I are layered away from each other, and that was not the case early on.
We probably have two layers at any given point. That’s what it feels like and we’ve tried testing it out a bit, and we never find more than two.
My point was: If our server only has two layers…why can’t we be squished now? If the server pop is so low that layering only has to separate us into halves, then I want to see the entire community because the server could handle it.
If it’s still higher pop than that…sure. I get what layering is, why it’s necessary, and how it’s helping us keep stable populations in the long-term.
I don’t see how on earth it’s going to save servers like Herod and Whitemane (or even Stalagg) come phase two, but I get why we have it.
On my tiny server, however, it seems to me that letting us out of layering might help rather than hurting. Maybe I’m wrong and there are thousands and thousands of players on Smolderweb…but I don’t think so.
So first of all, Smolderweb has over 39000 players according to wowheads population report. So your server is absolutely massive.
This is the problem with ANYONE making a suggesting about what they are doing with Classic, ESPECIALLY with layering. YOU DON’T KNOW.
You perceive something that you can’t possibly perceive. You assume the population is low, but haven’t checked. You feel there are a lot of people you aren’t seeing, but you haven’t any idea of the scale. You aren’t sure of the effects of layering, and never could have known.
Please please please PLEASE stop making assumptions about the servers. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing people complain killed original wow, players making limited observations based on personal feeling and then lobbying for changes based on those feelings.
I was told that no one knew and the numbers produced by mods and census apps were completely useless. I simply trusted that. If your 39,000 number is from something reliable, I’d love to know what it is so I can use it, too.
Second…that’s awesome! It’s also worrisome.
If there are more than 39,000 (can we call it 40k?) people on Smolderweb…how in the world are we going to remove layering at phase 2?
The promise to do so is either disingenuous (which I don’t believe–I think they’re doing everything they can to ensure success)…or it simply will not work and have to stay in place.
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Dude what server are you playing on? The zones already ARE crowded; even with layering. Did you forget that that the modern servers handle a much larger capacity than the OG vanilla servers?
This guy is complaining that he’s not seeing enough people in cities, but maybe… just maybe that’s because everyone is grinding like crazy and leveling, and not just afk in cities? Give it a few months and I’m sure you will see tons of people in cities even if there is still layering by that point.
I would argue that, even with layering limiting that a bit, fighting over resources is still a thing here… even on low-pop servers. I often find myself wandering far afield in search of ore deposits as a miner because going to the actual mines results in me not finding very much… because the last bunch to pass through took it all.
The difference between that and it becoming a clusterfudge mess is a fine line.
It was probably needed during launch week, definitely launch day. But it should be gone now especially given that we keep seeing ways it is exploited.
Welcome aboard. Better late than never, I always say.
Well…
Sux2bu