To be fair some warriors want condemn back, and would probably want ret range too.
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OP writes like he is RPing on the forums
i’d rather not have MS on HoL and have HoL replace FV for 12 seconds or whatever and cost 4 HP
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It’s not like ret is weak right now either, they’re prob the 4th best melee dps
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In general I think melee are weaker than casters, but I’m not sure ret is that high.
It’s probably like:
Feral/rogue>ww>enh>warrior>dk>ret>dh. Not including survival hunter in there because it’s functionally closer to ranged.
Maybe, but I think war, dk and ret are close enough to be debatable depending on comp/match up in ladder or solo shuffle games. You’re prob right in a tournament setting
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I think that’s the biggest thing tbh. So many classes are actually totally fine/strong in the right comps and MUs, but feel “weaker” especially when they’re fighting their counters. Other specs are super polarizing as well.
For example, frost mage DUNKS on melees, but gets outtraded by almost every wizard/hunter. Frost mage does insane with a feral or rogue to lock something down with stuns and frostbombs, but struggles without that lockdown.
I’m sure that’s a polarizing example because of how strong frost mage is and has been, but I also believe that it’s pretty accurate.
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just feels bad as a war for people to be begging for mortal strike when war utility is kind of in the dumpster
my guess is war gets nerfed again after tues due to complaining about war again from the slight buff
ww above enh warrior and ret 
, (If we’re talking about tomorrows changes)
ww is on same lvl of dh but it does less dmg just slightly tankier.
Understatement of the season. WW isn’t even a viable kill target most of the time
I am NOT including tomorrow’s buffs, and tbh I’m not sure where WW lands after the enh and ret buffs. I haven’t fought enough of any of those, but I think WW was solidly ahead of those prior to 11.0.5.
I’m more than happy to change my mind after I see more of all the specs, though!
If melee cleaves were good you could say WW is a lot tankier than DH (they don’t exist)
They are already buffed, 11.0.5 came out with massive changes for a ton of classes and left things like WW and warrior behind (warrior being buffed) not saying WW is bad or anything just that it’s behind in power in comparison to the specs that received changes with the patch.
Before the patch 100% WW was 3rd best melee for sure, but not anymore.
Ya that’s mostly what I was basing my opinions off of.
Yaya i totally understand, I just havent seen any enhance yet outside of watching saul and bigdam play double enh 2s. Enhance LOOKS way better and insane rn and war is getting huge buffs tomorrow, but ive only played like 30 games this week across 5 specs, so it’s hard to have a good perspective of how much balance has changed, especially when stuff like bm and ele were/are bugged.
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