Um, no. I’d say the drop frequency is about the same now that I think about it.
M+ isn’t nearly as rewarding as you seem to think it is. I’m not sure where this misconception is coming from. I don’t think we’re playing the same game.
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By making us raid and watching the rest of the thread of people that still play leave. If they do some bs with m+ I’ll be one of them. Having all 3 avenues to gear is nice. If that changes you will notice a shift in people leaving.
It’s such a gravy train, sure, but all the BiS items are in the raid. Normal is barely above LFR, it’s a faceroll. The level of gear reflects that. Heroic is a faceroll until the end boss(es), and rewards higher ilvl than a 15’s base reward. I don’t understand why it rewards higher ilvl in the vault and the raid vault doesn’t, and I’d be fine with them removing that aspect, but if you think it’s such a cakewalk to get KSM then why do the people I know who only run normal/heroic raids have such a hard time timing anything above a 13?
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the main problem with this argument that i read all the time is that there is fixed drops from raid that you can only do once a week, that drop gear that EVEN IF it was the same ilvl, could possibly have worse secondary stats than m+ gear. even if heroic gear was ilvl 300, if it has bad stats a piece of M+ (bigger loot table) will still be an upgrade at a lower ilvl. people don’t realize this for whatever reason.
m+ drops 298 ring with bis stats for you
raid drops 300 ring with bad stats
which one you taking? m+ has a way more diverse loot pool that isn’t, and won’t ever be behind a lockout because lockouts in m+ aren’t feasible.
In it’s current state, you actually do need to raid mythic to do high level m+ because of weapon / trinket upgrades that are absolutely massive power spikes. Seems healthy to me
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…
I’m starting to think a lot of you dudes dislike raiding just as much as the people you argue with. But for whatever reason, you put it on a pedestal.
You may like the content a little, but gear is what you really care about lol. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that btw. Just admit it, though.
Your reasons for raiding is probably like 10% actual enjoyment and 90% gear. You get what I’m saying lmao
nothing in the game “devalues” CE if you did it yourself, not m+, not ilvl, nothing.
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I think it’s entirely up to the individual.
Aotc and CE are whatever you make of them.
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You obviously haven’t read the posts in this thread, but i’ll say it again.
Raiding is primarily about 2 things:
- The challenge of clearing the raid, seeing the story and getting aotc/ce or whatever your guild aims for.
- Once you have that, the only reason to repeat the clear the raid every week is get your bis gear, and help your guildies get their bis gear.
So yes - raiding and M+ are all about the challenge AND the gear. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. And gear is what you keep coming back for, to clear the same content week in and out until the next tier.
Why do people keep using a 25 as a basis of comparing M+ to mythic raiding?
I’ve done a few mythic bosses here or there over the years, it was common for PUG groups doing the first 1-3. Lots of guilds get the first few M bosses on farm and do 4-5/10 weekly.
I’ve never come close to doing a +25, nor has most of the people in the game. I do not believe we’re comparing even things.
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Because only ~0.3% of players do a 25 and they want to pretend that’s how elite they are.
The level that raiders overestimate their own skill is crazy. Players in World ~1200 who get CE players on the last day of the patch love to talk about how if they just put in a tiny bit more effort, they could be Limit, its insane. I joke about it and other people joke about it with me, but then at the end always say “Yeah, but I could if I wanted to” and its like… facepalm moment.
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If anything it is from the idea that one can run the same instance over and over and over again to farm the once piece of loot they want, Add to that valor upgrades to the 3rd highest ilvl from M+ and yeah, M+ edges out rading due to how farmable it is.
Maybe because it is technically easier, but it could take on the aspects of like a marathon vs. a 100 yard dash. A lot of the skill involved does cross over, but where the 100 yard dash is more about getting speed and being able to maintain it till the finish line (ala M+) the marathon is about pacing yourself and knowing when to take at least water breaks (so more like raiding)
Except when it isn’t.
I maintain its because most raid loggers are used to being told what to do and don’t have to think about using their class utility the vast majority of the time. They dodge mechanics when told to, and do their rotation. M+ feels overwhelming to them because they have to pay attention to a lot more things happening at once. The average raider had a hell of a time touching yellow circles to purple circles the past tier.
We can cite a plethora of fights in recent expansions where the overflow of mechanics had many raiders in perpetual panic mode because the encounter wasn’t scripted enough for them to be able to know where to stand and what to do at every waking moment because they had to think for themselves.
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That is likely true when getting into the higher keys, but up to 15s can be out geared/skilled fairly easily. If anything, barring tuning issues, 15s and under are not timed because someone thought they were better then they actually are and wiped the group repeatedly. Think of it like this, larger pulls are sometimes manageable in raids because you have more people to handle them, but in M+ you only have 5, pull a mass like you do in raid in an M+ that is at or above your skill level and YIKES.
In other words, addons like DBM need to be used with the idea of when things can happen, not when they will happen and people need to be like “ok, x is coming up/can happen anytime, I need to do y to prepare”.
Ummm… bfa started the m+ loot craze, it rewarded far too much loot.
heroic loot and +10s were the same ilvl homie
And it needs to go back to that. Or add in a token. Ive run 70 mechagon workshops and have yet to get a ring.
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Not even that, Mechatorque is a great example of where even addons like DBM were useless.
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This honestly needs to be the norm for Raids and M+.
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