Awakening is definitely the root cause of a lot of issues and I will -always- support it’s removal but if you removed that right now they’d have to buff sotr or add another damage spender (harsh words for wog??) because then we’d have absolutely nothing to do with our holy power if healing isn’t needed, we’d probably still end up using lod on full hp raids because there’d be nothing else to do with it, that’s how bad our design is foundationally. Removing awakening would have to come with buffs too in some way, or at the very least it’d have to come with a spec tree rework.
That’s what happens when you slap holy power onto our bfa playstyle that already had a ton of issues (that they were aware of) without reworking holy paladin at all. Legit just turned HoW/HS/HL/CS into generators, made LoD a spender and added Wog from prot to holy and made it a spender. That was -all- we got lmao, it was so lazy. Not to mention bfa playstyle was hard carried by glimmer ramping.
I do like AC more as well like I said before. I don’t think it’s good that healers don’t have to look at frames often (fistweaver/avenging Crusader) but I really enjoy the fast paced playstyle and the choices you have to make between globals
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Alright, everyone in this thread is saying AC is worse than AwM for M+ as it does significantly less DPS but looking at the numbers I don’t understand why the damage isn’t atleast comparable.
Avenging Crusader:
- 15s duration / 45 second cooldown (33% uptime)
- +30% damage to auto-attacks/CS/Judge
Avenging Wrath: Might:
- 25s duration / 120 second cooldown (21% uptime)
- +40% damage to all abilities (the 20% crit chance has roughly an expected value of +20% damage)
Just looking at higher uptime for AC, the damage should be roughly equal for a long fight. Since HPal doesn’t have any passive damage aside from Consecration, the damage increases should be roughly comparable.
That’s not even considering the extra Class talents buffing CS/Judgment (and Zealot’s Paragon extending AC uptime more proportionally), the 30% cooldown reduction for CS/Judgment, and Awakening which extends AC uptime more proportionally.
I feel like I am missing something, although I admit I have not done high-level M+ on a HPal and don’t know how valuable Consecration is there.
man this is straight facts. needs to be removed and compensated for.
The problem is fights arent really long like that in m+ to get enough value out of constant AC procs. Trash dies too fast for chain procs to have heavy impact. You get more aoe damage out of AWM (increased crit/daamge for cons, constant holy shock+glimmer spamming) and cons is our highest damage spell in m+ on top of SOTR if you do good sized pulls (the only place sotr is decent). AC is largely single target damage contribution but it isn’t high enough to be worthwhile over awm that has far better aoe damage contribution and on top of that you have to deprioritize holy shock and cons globals to fit in more cs/judge globals which is not great for m+
That makes more sense: I forgot about SotR (easy to do!) and the opportunity cost of not spamming Holy Shock during Avenging Wrath: Might.
What’s going to tell the story here is data. I looked at a few of the top HPal logs in AA since the patch (since AA is the most favorable toward AoE damage), and it does seem the top builds doing AC were hitting 13k-18k DPS while the top logs with traditional HPal builds are doing 20k-30k DPS. The flip side of that extreme comparison using AA is that healer DPS is far less of an overall contributor when the party is doing 400k DPS overall.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a slight movement toward AC for M+.
I think we’re going to see a huge shift towards a DPS healer meta the way they’re simplifying m+ this season.
From what I’ve seen on the ptr, Hpals will be non existent again due to how low our damage is. Picking AC will make it even worse. I’d love to be proven wrong, but we’ll need some help to make that happen.
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Instead of improving our damage we are recieving a nerf, and not a single core issue of the spec is being addressed. This is depressing
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Ngl this tuning pass is cringe. It must be targeting only raids ,but it takes down with it everything else. Understandable that their tuning priority is raiding since its relevant in the first 2 weeks of the new season but serious tuning needs to happen after WF race is over( and honestly who cares about WF race anymore its not relevant for anyone)
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When I saw there was class balancing incoming and we were included, I actually got hopeful for once. I will remember not to do so in the future.
The AC healing nerf was expected and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it get more over the next couple weeks, but the blanket dmg and healing nerf is just unnecessary and nonsensical.
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It will widen the gap between healers in m+, specially when active damage healers are doing x2 damage than us right now before the nerf. Also they way this impacts AW:M builds and AC niche in M+ is disheartening.
Know we now they dont look gameplay/class design issues and just raw numbers from raid, not even taking into account other content.
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They’re obviously looking at healer damage because they buffed holy priest damage a few weeks ago.
But if they’re looking at healer damage, how are they nerfing ours again? I just can’t wrap my head around it.
They are nerfing ST damage for raiding purposes. Its always like that,before the raid release they tune just for the raid. Hopefully they will not forget that WF race is meaningless and tune properly after
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7xNctiyeE
This Hpal performance lasted for 1 week and in the old raid. With this “tune” for the raid, our overall score would be even below RDruid apparently, since it’s around a 7-8% loss in HPS for raid? . This is not even taking into account our m+ mid-low tier performance 