As a whole, people tend to resent things they don’t have a choice in doing. For example, work, taxes and Torghast. Going to nip the sarcastic comments out of the way. Of course, your not held at gunpoint and made to do these things, it’s just if you want and decent life, or dps, you kinda do 
I’ve read a number of hyperbolic replies to threads when it comes to timers, but I haven’t read any replies from people who actually use that as a reason to remove them.
It’s always been the people that say that solo world players want “Mythic Raid quality items in their mailbox every time they log in.”
Do you have a link?
To the Shadowlands alpha forums?
You’re kidding, right?
you dont have to do every piece of progression in game, you know. let others be more progressed. it’s okay.
1 Like
I missed that part, my apologies.
That being said, I still haven’t seen anyone make a statement along those lines that could be taken seriously in any measurable way.
There’s just so much needless exaggeration on the internet nowadays that it becomes white noise after a time, to me.
Okay. So you obviously weren’t following early Shadowlands development.
Therefore, it must not have happened. Right?
You have it backwards, it was the idiotic(*) arguments of “but someone might wait 10 minutes to be able to bloodlust again” that were used to try to defend the idea of timers.
To which the natural response was “so what?”
* - idiotic from the “Torghast should be light fun” side; but in fairness there was a genuine culture clash between competing visions as some people had a more challenge/competition concept in mind, with some even envisioning leaderboards.
2 Likes
I do remember that being repeated a number of times, which is the point that I was trying to make.
The problem was tying it into the other pillars of endgame. You only did it as a chore, not for the activity itself. So it fundamentally misunderstood the roguelite genre.
In roguelites you progressively get more powerful as you go, and even if you fail, you earn something that helps you on your next run. A new power or something like that. So Torghast was pretty challenging at first, but the problem was that you had to complete it to get your soul ash for the week. So when you failed you got nothing for your effort. So they nerfed it to make it way easier, so it just became a task to do to get a currency.
If it had been its own game mode, with gear drops and rewards unique to it, it would’ve been another potential pillar for endgame content for solo or small group players.
At least delves seem to be going in the right direction.
I thought the mobs in Torghast were too tanky. The way it was scaled was bad. It didn’t feel like an ARPG, it felt like you were running solo through a massive, maze-like dungeon where you just slowly kill each pack. I played FDK at launch and they were extremely underpowered, I barely could even do Torghast when it first came out.
Why did everything need to be a meat sponge in there when it doesn’t even give immediate rewards and there’s like endless levels. This was coming off an expansion where everything there was also a giant meat sponge.
They could’ve just looked at Grim Dawn’s crucible or Path of Exile to get ideas, this isn’t neuroscience.
If it wasn’t for the leggo requirements, no one would have been in there past the first week. That place was aweful.
1 Like
…Maybe there’s a reaosn why Blizzard allows people to “feel “compelled” to do both”, because if one row isn’t working out for them, they are not screwed out for the rest of the week.
Ikr. Like tie 30 world quests to it for the first row, and up it by 15 for every row or like 5 to 20 events, and that would be perfect. 
And rightly they did because while some classes/specs had ridiculously amazing whatever-they-called-the-powerups, others had completely crap ones and couldn’t get anything at all done. Beast Hunter had some of the worst for a solo run of any of the classes I played (including one no one I’ve found anywhere was ever able to figure out how to use!) and even Resto Shammie (which was one of the amazing best) could get completely screwed over with not getting the ones they needed to be that powerhouse, leaving them dead in the water.
This completely ignores it was one of the most boring things I’ve ever seen introduced. It took only a handful of runs to see every one of the “endless” corridor patterns, which were just on repeat and all grey all the time. The mobs didn’t change, the scenery didn’t change, and several of the end bosses were obnoxious. Plus, since they were randomized, you could get one your class had no ability to beat and you were simply screwed after spending 45min in there.
Statements like this are always opinion, but it’s pretty severe for me to be able to say Torghast has been the single worst thing ever put into WoW to the point that I literally almost quit the game over it. Only my guildies, who let me get the legendaries slow as molasses and/or went with me to just finish the damn thing so I could leave it faster, are the reason I’m still playing. If Blizzard likes still getting my money, they should be thanking said guildies.
I would have been perfectly fine with it existing as long as there was no reason I had to participate in it. Except Blizzard wanted literally everyone to play it and if they weren’t going to play it willingly, they would forced. This went poorly with a lot of people for a reason, those people were NOT just whiners. It remains VERY VERY tiring to hear the anti-Torghast players treated like they were just a bunch of lazy people when the reality is Torghast was an unbalanced, badly constructed, abomination which should never be re-introduced to WoW in any form whatsoever.
Torghast was such an indescribably negative experience for me that when the vault thing was introduced on the Forbidden Reach, I walked in once and left pretty much immediately because it’s minute resemblance to Torghast made me instantaneously hostile to it. Torghast is what is making me eye the upcoming Delves with suspicion and distrust.
Torghast needed to never be a thing players were blanket forced to do. PERIOD.
Totally fine that some classes had an easier time and not when you could group. There’s no way solo content can be as easy for everyone unless it’s just not at all challenging.
I 100% agree. And this will always be the issue with trying to make solo content.
Mage Towers came the closest, as they at least had different content for different roles/playstyles/etc.
Because (contrary to some complaints) that classes play fairly different from each other, in order to make challenging solo content it would have to be set up differently for nearly every spec. Which is an insane workload.
Otherwise it has to be streamlined to the point of being easy to make sure all specs can accomplish the goal of completion.
Mage Tower.
It’s not that it can’t be done. It’s just very labor and time intensive to do it because you have to design the encounters for every spec.
And then have a group version as well.
The problem was they tried a one size fits all solution.
Mage tower was very different depending of specs.
*It wasn’t tuned the same for every specs that were doing it and some challenges were way easier.
Moreover, it became way more easy over time which is when most people did it.
Great idea, horrible execution. Very sad job, Blizzard.
Yes, I’m aware, I barely touch m+ and raiding myself. I loved torghast. I was merely making an important point about it because in this instance it WAS required to make your legendaries, which is what got a lot of people burnt out on it
they went there twice and burned out? in two years?
they are weak.