It’s Time: Level Squish

I will say that there are plus sides to the zone scaling. At least now it’s easier to pick and choose where you want to level and what order the zones are in which you level. I was still pretty disappointed when the Plaguelands were nerfed in Cataclysm. At least now, I can still save them for last without out-leveling them.

But that’s just me :slight_smile:

You get choice of doing kill ‘x’ number of mobs in westfall or duskwood. We lost a lot choices on how to level as a result of this. We also lost a lot of satisfaction some people were getting from leveling.

The pluses don’t make up for the negatives, especially when most people are just going to ‘x’ and ‘y’ zones because those are most efficient to level up in.

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Just level-scale all game content that predates the current active expansion and let players pick and choose whatever they feel like doing at any level they choose.

Oh, I’m definitely not arguing about the downsides. There are plenty of them. One of the things that first got me hooked on the game was getting my rear kicked by that spider in Teldrassil. Then I out-leveled him, went back, and killed it. Being able to go back and deal with tough monsters after earning enough levels has always been rewarding, so I totally get it. I wonder why scaling was implemented in the first place?

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I wasn’t playing at the time they implemented it, but I can probably guess as to why they did.

First, before level scaling was implemented, outside of current expansion zones, I hadn’t actually finished a leveling zone in years.

Between heirlooms and the general increases to leveling speed, I’d always be in excess of a given area’s level range well before the end of it, and it got worse with each expansion that passed because the xp requirements per level kept going down.

Second, you had very little choice in where and how to level if you were questing. After 60, any given level might have 2 zones suitable for you at most.

With level scaling added, it removed both those problems. No matter how fast you leveled, you could take a given zone at your own pace and still face appropriate enemies, and instead of only a couple zone options, you’d have a multitude.

Yes, it came with its own can of worms, but overall, I feel it was well worth it and deserving of only further expansion.

And I often finished zones even though I wasn’t getting as much xp because I liked certain zones and I stayed in them until I finished them. The zones I didn’t like I would just do the quests I liked in them.

The problem of people finishing zones wasn’t really a problem - blizzard didn’t care if you finished or not. Some people, however, complained they wanted to be able to finish the zone and still get maximum xp. Seems kind of silly looking back now, that they created this mess because a tiny group of players wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

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What mess? Honest question.

Pretty sure codex talks about that on the guild.

I feel like THAT is exactly the point of most RPG games. Without ever experiencing that effect, would be almost a betrayal of the genre.

Especially blizzard games.

Like on Diablo series, there are numerous instances where if you don’t level past the content, it’s just a straight up boring grind of walking back to your corpse or having to rejoin the game you were in and start over in town, and the grind that entails.

Honestly i don’t want to see them go with low max level, because when they did that to d3, and made the paragon system, it ruined most of what I enjoyed about the series.

If you think they wouldn’t put a paragon system in to appease the players that didn’t want a lower max level, then you obviously haven’t been paying attention to blizzard. And then, nobody is going to be happy.

So just stick with playing classic when it releases and everybody’s going to be somewhat happy. Blizzard won’t have to rework the leveling system, And we won’t have to deal with the small amount of players that want this messing it up for the rest of us.

Will you be able to do newer content? No. But you’ll have all the time you could shake a stick at to level up to 60 and I’m pretty sure you’re going to need it because I’m pretty sure classic took a lot longer to hit max level.

6-10 days if you a go getter. Up to months if you casual, per the old forums.

So yeah I am not down with that on non-classic. It’s only taken me a week to get my lightforged draenei to 102. And really that’s more like 6 hours a day causally playing. And every few levels, i get Great upgrades for non heirloom slots…

Pretty sure I got 4 total 28%-55% better upgrades on all those slots during the 10 levels I did in pandaria.

I’m also pretty sure if max Level dropped to 60, we’d only get like 5% upgrades every level, which won’t be nearly as impressive as hitting the ones like I described from pandaria(I’ve gotten similar through out leveling from 20 but it was often enough I couldn’t keep track if I wanted, which if that doesn’t tell you you’ve wrong and the max level is fine popping up ten levels every xpac, then there’s not much left to be said)

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Actually, the upgrades would be larger per level, not smaller. This isn’t a stat or ilvl squish, so the same amount of stats and gear are coming from fewer levels.

If we went from 120 to 60 being the cap, for example, every level we’d earn would give us the stats and gear upgrades as if we’d gained two levels now.

The need to keep adding gear upgrades, more heirlooms, more xp potions, adjust xp in dungeons, fix power leveling, adjust xp gains in 60-80 bracket, and now rearranging talents and maybe level squishing all to fix what they broke in 7.3.5.

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My apologies, I meant what is broken about level scaling now?

Squishing isn’t related to it, as level scaling or no, we’d still have the same problem we do now with too many levels for the abilities we have.

We never had that problem before 7.3.5 though.

This is a bandaid solution, it does not solve the problem of the levelling process being unrewarding, or at least lacking consistency in rewards. A level means little - the rewards aren’t there or come from things like the levelling of heirloom items and the occasional talent or skill. It’s a bit lazy too IMO - what needs to happen is to make each level mean something.

The rezoning, I believe, actually helped this by giving the option of story completion being a reward. You know, on that point anything descended from role-playing games SHOULD have well-written complex story as a reward. The old talent tree had its own issues but it got it right where a small reward each level provided some satisfaction for many. Moreso that reward was tied to the type of character you wanted to grow. I remember when I first joined I was lucky enough to have friends who understood that while cookie cutter builds were popular for a reason, that they didn’t have to be the way you shaped your character while levelling. I liked that and personally, I was always interested in innovative players use of builds.

Meaningful choices, I believe are a far more serious and fundamental problem in WoW. The choices we are making around Saurfang, for example, I believe will not be meaningful. That’s cynical of me, but it really shows my lack of trust in the devs and story-writers, because of past decisions. Another issue is innovation for innovation’s sake - systems are left by the wayside rather than building a complex and interesting game. Finally wrapping their heads around these two issues could make levelling more meaningful.

Rather than have this fake-timelapse where our new character goes back partially in time and then speeds through time to wherever everyone else is - make it that at the end of an expansion the mechanisms of the expansion become part of the total levelling experience, right from level 20. If the Wow devs had actually bothered to deliver on what players were actually calling for in WoD, namely player housing, rather than listening to their own internal dialogue, then that is a prime example of something that could have been worked on from level 20 right through for characters joining the story after the expansion.

There is much more in the way of making levelling fun, interesting, and rewarding, which is why I think level-squishing (and item-level squishing for that matter) is a lazy and self-defeating option.

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Pretty sure they would do an ilvl squish to compliment the level squish.
Literally there is no way around it.can’t really compress level and not items. Also, change required level for items because no more 120 and all the gear inbetween it and level 1 are going to be…odd, to say the least without crushing the item levels down to match the new janky max level. Basically, it’s a giant game. Huge, in fact.

Logistically speaking, what you’re suggesting is psychotic. Because there is no precedent for it to occur, on any rpg, ever. Always either same max throughout or upgrading max level with every expansion.

Like say for instance, the next expansion drops, and we all log in, only to find they implemented this craziness. First, you’regoing to notice how your level decreased and so did your capabilities. Then you’re going to notice how your ilvl was also cut in half, because they can’t help but feel like the ilvl didn’t fit anymore and it made certain classes and specs over powered. Then you’regoing to notice how stupid you all have been being because when blizzard changes things, it never goes the way you want it to, and if it does, prepare to get banned for abusing an exploit, or watch with immense fear as they rollback all the parts you liked about what they “improved”

So no, no it wouldn’t.

Also, i started playing during legion so I’m pretty new, yes. But I’ve played blizzard games since 1999. They gonna then blame us because they listened to the wrong group of players.

But think whatcha want.

the solution to this is more things added to the game
not less levels

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We go anymore backwards, and you will only have five people left playing the game.

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Probably. Just pray the remains are all on same kind of server.

But, they could get the experience they’re looking for on classic after it releases. I’m sure if they new thread and petition, they could get blizzard to freeze level over there forever. :laughing:

It baffles me that people are thinking about this in terms of, “If they lower the amount of levels they’re going to extend the amount of time it takes to get them” or, “we would have to go to each expansion at different levels, that just wouldn’t make sense!”

At this point, WoW is in need of a reboot.

60 - 110 is just no longer relevant. At this point they shouldn’t even be considered part of the story, anymore.

I’ve been advocating a drop of the level cap to 60 and having it stay there for each new expansion while completely overhauling the entire 1 - 60 experience so that (A) It becomes meaningful to actually earn a level, and (B) to fix the completely fractured and nonsensical story progression this game has had since Cataclysm first released.

Remake each Vanilla zone with a new story that catches players up on events since Cataclysm and just have each zone have their own self-contained stories. Then once players reach 60, they enter the content for whatever is the newest expansion at the time. Every expansion that came before would be accessible at 60, but only as options - for players to obtain those rewards; achievements, mounts, transmog items, and such. They would be at the highest level of power as the final gear level of those expansions to make it easier to go through either solo or with really small groups.

Once players reach 60, then they would discover new avenues of character improvement and go through the newest story content in order to access the newest raid tiers - and each expansion would only expand on the story, add new features, new ways of character progression, and, finally, new raid tiers.

It doesn’t have to be rocket science. Please do not make it any more complicated than it really should be.

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If they do that then they have to re-do all the work they did for the scaling, we all know not everything scaled well with it.

I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

Reconcile this statement.

Either fix old content so you can fully explore it before out-leveling it, or make it a truly free for all.

When actually there is nothing to fix. Because 60-110 don’t matter to you, doesn’t mean everyone shares that sentiment.

What else is there to do in old content after hitting max level?

Y’all freaking redundant af.

Just save it for classic and leave main game alone.

If you don’t think a level squish isn’t going to be extremely complicated, you don’t understand blizzard at all.

Just look at this quoted reply to your insane assumptions :

Which is what I said as well, So lol.

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