It’s Impossible

Community General Discussion
84

When it’s content that synergizes with each other, I don’t see the issue. If it were, say, grinding world quests & raiding; or Pet Battle master & raiding; then I’d be frothing at the mouth in a heartbeat.

M+ just contributes to a higher level of gameplay, and that benefits the raid environment. 10+ untimed still seems to be the mark as far as hitting diminishing returns. Easily obtainable.

Did I like “set and forget” raiding? Sure and it was simpler to just focus on one form of content; left me more time for mog and light play. Yet I really like the time/reward formula of M+. 4hrs and I get a choice of two drops of solid ilvl gear + it’s engaging, and I’m a better player for it. Win/Win.

This is from the point of view of a Heroic raider (traditionally), and a casual raid group (which = bringing it over the finishing line at the last moment). Just for context.

85

I’ve pugged 17’s with less than 220. Pugs care about the meta for some reason and you and I are in a pretty good spot there at the moment. You’re going to have no trouble pugging keys at a high level because you’re balance. There’s more 16 and up keys than there are CE raiders.

86

The easy solution is to create gear that excels in the environment that it comes from. Make Mythic+ gear that increases your effectiveness in Mythics but is only competent gear in Raids… then do the reverse for Raid gear.

The problem corrects itself after that.

87

weekly lockouts would totally obliterate M+ full stop it shouldn’t even be considered.

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88

I never said the game should be balanced around the top1%, and it is not balanced around the top 1%. Not at all.

Nor did I say people should play in a way that is less effective because they are not top. But I said they could. I said nobody is forcing them to do anything, except themselves, and it is true.

People come here to complain they are forced to do m+ because that is the best way to gear up. Lie. It is not the best, not even close, and even if it were, you could play without doing and do very well to the level they play.

And I will take myself for example, as someone that only goes for aotc and is trying to get KSM for the first time: there is a lot people come here to complain that they are forced to do that I’m not doing and I am well on the way to achieve my goals on the game.

You don’t enjoy doing pvp to gear up for pve? Then don’t do it. I didn’t, and it went very well.

Don’t enjoy farming stygia for gem slots? Me neither. Not doing it, I’m fine.

Don’t enjoy m+? Well, I do, so I am doing it. Get my chest loot every week. If you don’t, you can get your one item reward from raids and pvp too. The gear drop from m+ itself… I think this forum has talked a lot about how it is not worth it: drops too few and the ilvl is usually too low by the time you are clearing it.

So, the game offers multiple paths of progression. Nobody forces you to do all of them, you don’t need to do all of them to most levels of difficult - except for the top 1%, which I am not a part of.

If you think you need to do all of that even though you don’t enjoy some parts of it, that is your problem. Try to let go of it for a month and then tell me if you won’t be fine.

Pick the things you like and do it, plain and simple. Now if you don’t enjoy pvp, don’t enjoy raids, don’t enjoy m+… well, that is fair. You can not enjoy any of the paths of progression. But that also means you don’t enjoy the game and you should look for something else that you enjoy.

The idea that they should add a lock to content because people can’t be mature enough to decide what they want to do is pathetic. All it would accomplish is locking people who wants to do both without anything to do.

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89

Once you understand this game is split into PvP and PvE and how, this system becomes easier to understand.

Raiding is endgame PvE and M+ is an alternative.
Arena is endgame PvP. Rated battlegrounds are an alternative. Your best gear will always come from Raid, Arena, or Vault.

The secret is Blizzard thinks they did right with the vault and according to the idea that M+ is less than raid they did that right. The vault already provides the lockout for gear you hypothesized about. Realistically if you want M+ gear to drop as high as Mythic Loot it would need to be limited by getting from the vault so you should petition to get more than one item per vault.

TL’DR ask for one piece of gear from each row in vault or live with the fact that M+ gear changing is a 10.0 problem.

90

Except they didn’t lower the ilvl for any of the reasons you gave. It was lowered in SL because they didn’t want it to directly compete with content that had a “loot” lockout and makes it impossible to farm. You could clear the entire raid 10 times but you can only get loot from the first kill of each boss that week. There is no such lock out with mythic+ and in BFA it was widely considered a better gearing option to raiding because it offered gear on ilvl par with no lock outs.

And why would there be a mid season catch up, there isn’t for raiding either…

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91

There’s a thing I call group cohesion XP. Only attained by forming a core group & gained by pushing content together; it’s not an individual stat but only gleaned from the whole. This is almost entirely missing from pugs.

I haven’t had any luck trying to form an entire group but only parts.I have tried & failed to find guilds that focus on M+. Something like this must be accomplished if your desires of reaching high are to be fulfilled.

& no, I give not a single iota of f’s for raiding other than how the loot tables impact the vault but even that I have no desire & am 7/10N

. The raids themselves seem cool but I do not enjoy that environment. Perhaps if I knew the people that would be different but they all seem to have their cliq’s. Dealing with this IRL is easy but on a game with no body lang, eye contact or presence it’s much different.

Apologies for my many edits, takes time for me to distill my thoughts & expand upon.

92

Option 3 - remove weekly raid lockout, or
Option 4 - increase the number of kills we can do in a week, or
Option 5 - give raiders a currency similar to valor so that spamming M+ is less appealing.

93

Sure there is. As the raid gets more geared, gear is more likely to be passed. Bring a new person to raid in week 15 and they’re likely getting 3-5 pieces that night.

94

The same is equally true in mythic+, provided you are running with people who will trade loot. It’s not like loot trading is a raid only thing after all.

95

The end drops in m+ are worthless. They are almost always under the gear level needed to actually do the content reliably. M+ could drop 20 pieces of loot and it wouldn’t change anything. M+ loot pretty much only comes from the vault.

96

Super easy fix OP is not seeing

10 man mythic raiding. Who cares about the top 1-2% of players most players are capable of mythic raiding just lack the roster boss.

97

I think 10 man raiding scratches that itch for untimed, small group challenges. Having it reward 226/233 gear (and being tuned accordingly) has been something current dev team (and Ion personally) has tried to squash, largely because 10 man raids almost killed 25 man raids back in the day.

98

Not if you are “catching up”. After all you we are talking about quickly getting people geared up, there is nothing fast then mythic+ for that because is lacks a loot lockout.

99

Ok, so let’s say you get carried to 30-40 m+ this week AND your group can armor stack for you. (So mail and cloth are off the table). You could theoretically make it to 210 in a week (with some luck) clocking in about 35 hours of /played.

Now you’re 210 flat.

Most reasonable pugs are looking for 215+ item level for their +15s. (I say reasonable because I’ve been declined for being “only 215” on my shaman). That means you just need to get your weekly 15 chests done for 5 weeks (and hope you don’t get duplicates or unusable pieces). Congrats! Now you might be able to pug. Realistically, though, you’re looking at 10-15 weeks to get to 220, and 20-25 weeks to get to 226 (again, with a lot of luck).

Meanwhile, Jody who took that raid spot gets full 226 in 6 weeks or less of farm for about 18 hours /played in the same circumstances (stacking for armor type/weapon class) with nearly double the probability of hitting 226 by week 7 as m+ players have of hitting 226 by week 25.

M+ gets to 210 faster. Raids then get to 226 at light speed by comparison.

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100

210 gear is the highest you can get which is weaker than heroic…

101

I know. It doesn’t stop them from complaining about it, though.

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