Isn't Venthyr the best for BM? Warcraft logs show top damage parses are NF

Even for standalone boss like Guardian. NF Bms are doing more damage than Venty BMs.

Anyone has the answer? Cuz I was thinking of switching in 9.1.5 but if the damage is lower and I lose soulshape, I don’t see what’s the point.

The cool thing in 9.1.5 is that you can switch and switch back etc… without care, without losing anything assuming you hit Renown 80 first in 1 covenant first.

So my plan is:

  1. Switch from NF to venthyr cause why not.
  2. Do stuff, level up some Venth Renown yada yada yada
  3. Before raid, switch back to NF (MAXIMUM POWAH!)
  4. Eat Raid Bosses for Lunch
  5. Post Raid, riding a high that can only come from mass murder I will then go back to Venth

Plan to get all 4 covenants on this guy (Goth Venth → Holy Hell Kyrian → Bad A$$ Necrolord). Not really caring about the power thing. I’ll figure that out.


Ven is best for pvp, so thats probably why you heard that its the best

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Because there more NF raiders since NF is better for almost all situations in raid vs Venthyr only able to ST and its rng. Having more control over your cds is more optimal for SoD. How many 10/10 BM you see running venthyr?

Reasons to play venth:

  • like the covenant and don’t care about overall dmg
  • PvP only
  • ???

That’s about it

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I think Lazy liked Venthyr for Torghast, too.

So I guess you can add that to the list.

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With Elder Antlers, my BM Hunter does a ridonculous amount of Wild Spirits damage.


I just wish they’d stop breaking off my antlers to get them… those hurt to grow back you know :scream:

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Venthyr is very sustainable damage when used correctly. It works better with high crit values, it is a must use in conjunction with Bestial Wrath. You will lack any significant burst without Wild Spirits or or Resonating Arrow in a raid encounter. Wild Spirits is more or less easier to play with due to its only real requirement being timing it with the boss or mobs being stationary for 18 seconds and being used in time with Bestial wrath (in NF case just before casting BW)

The two main soulbinds for BW are Niya and Dreamweaver which are both very fire and forget that line up with your Covenant ability. Venthyr uses Nadjia and Theotar both have cycling procs or buffs that need to be tracked and watched to get the most out of them. This is where you can get miss lead with sims. Sims don’t account for the human element just RNG of procs. While Venthyr may seem very good on paper you are also looking at select situations, target counts, and in most cases stationary targets that do not account for mechanics like those of which may cause you to stop and do something or reposition.

Actual logs are far more helpful as you can se what people are doing, when they are doing it, and at times why they are doing it. That won’t always come across properly as you aren’t actually watching the fight transpire but it is the next best thing. During raid it is in most cases preferable to take big chunky CDs to line up with lust or help push you though pain points in encounters. Big CDs is also one of the places BM hunter lacks the most due to lack luster talents like Stamped.

As several regulars here have said all 3 covenants are good in there own ways and have different “times to shine”. Personally I find it better to make your choice then focus on being the best with the choices you make and or are comfortable with. If your comfortable with anything pick what the lead players are suggesting and start doing reading to understand why.

In short NF covers one of BMs biggest weaknesses as stated above. WS provides a substantial amount of burst that is unrivaled with paired with its legendary.


Very good explanation bud.

I thought you still had to grind renown in all covenants with a catch up mechanic allowing you to skip to 40 renown if you had 80 renown on at least one covenant.

I read what you are saying as hitting renown 80 on one covenant unlocks all of them at 80.

Edit: added quote from wowhead

  • Players who reach 80 Renown with any Covenant will be able to freely switch among any of the four Covenants without cooldown or restriction. In addition, cosmetic rewards that have been earned from a Covenant with which the player has reached 80 Renown may be used even if that character is currently a member of a different one. Both the Covenant switching and the use of cosmetic rewards will also apply to alts once the Renown threshold is reached on any character. Example: A player with a Night Fae Druid at Renown 80 can use appropriate Night Fae cosmetics on their Rogue, even if the Rogue is a member of the Necrolords.

End quote

Freely switch just means not quest chain for wait after switching. You still have to grind renown for each new covenant.

No. I didn’t say that at all which is why step 2 of my grand plan is:

  1. Do stuff, level up some Venth Renown yada yada yada
  1. I have 80 in NF,
  2. I switch to Venth and have Renown 1 or whatever initially
  3. do some venthy stuff and maybe get to Renown 10,
  4. before Raid I switch back to NF and I’m Renown 80 in NF with all covenant base stuff and maxed out soulbinds, conduits, etc… just as I left it.
  5. After raid I switch back to Venth and my Renown is 10 again
  6. I do more venthy stuff and get to more Venthy Renown
  7. At random points I switch back to NF because my NF champ mission table has really high level champs and they farm stuff for me. Missions. Garden. Collect free stuff. Etc…
  8. Done with that, go back to Venth and do more Venthy stuff

Rinse and Repeat.

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Night Fae is good in raid due to Antlers.

Venthyr is a solid choice for Survival raiding with the Pouch legendary. Kill shot gets benefit from our mastery as well, although we avoid mastery where possible.

I am hoping to do this as well. My only concern is if I switch and use the upgrade to 40 renown, can you freely switch in this fashion BEFORE reaching 80 renown in the new covenant?

I know it says to “Switch Freely”, but the PTR forums seem to indicate otherwise (which may be bugs) and I would appreciate more clarification from Blizzard.

I would hate to not be able to switch back to NF before raid.

I intend to find out on day 1. If it blows up in my face so be it.


I was going to try to wait 24 hours but I’m not sure I can! Lol

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As soon as you switch covenants you dont need to grind to 10 reknown you use an item to get 40 reknown and then start grinding from 40 to 80

^ This.

I run Venth and I use pouch in my raids. Going witth crrit is the way to go with Venth and Blood. Even when I do BM, using the mad duke helps out the shade also gives a decent buff. Teas are also great though the rng can suck.

I may try a necro on a tune, to do some more pvp.

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Venthyr is great. I’m venthyr.

Going off what sims say and world first raiders or warcraft logs will drive you nuts. You are not a robot. Play whichever one feels the best to you and you will actually play better than if you follow a cookie cutter build that feels bad.

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Or are we?