Pretty much this. At the end of the day I am fine that the Alliance gets justifications for what they do. What I dislike is that “justifications” are akin to Handwaves without consequences for the Blue Faction, while the Red Faction can’t even be presented with Motives for what they’re constantly forced to do much of the time. If someone is going to do something, regardless of faction, they should have motives and reasons given to them to take those actions. And no matter how valid those justifications may happen to be (from any number of perspectives), that should not absolve them of consequences.
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it’s more likely that Turalyon and Alleria will attack Quel’thalas.
Her whispers are goading her to take back her rightful claim (I’m assuming to the throne since Lorthemar’s claim is probably weaker than hers) and the last time she was in Quel’thalas, Lorthemar told her not to come back so I think there’s enough foreshadowing that we are going to come back to a conflict.
The Zandalari, I’m assuming will attack Kul Tiras with Jaina away and since Jaina and Alleria had a little spiff in Shadows Rising I don’t think she would urge Turalyon to waste resources protecting it.
The issue with this is that Talanji is not in any position to try to make or demand such an attack. The Golden Fleet is in ruins, and her people suffered a really close call within Shadow’s Rising. Frankly, the Zandalari are so weakened in their current state, the best that can be said about them since they joined the Horde is the about the same thing you can say about the current Darkspear. “They simply aren’t in obvious decline atm”. Both Horde Troll groups have a long way to go before “recovering” is a term that can be applied to them. While “still declining” is the status of all other Troll groups.
if they had help from the Darkspear and the rest of the Horde who were sympathetic to her concerns she could.
Just because the Horde is practicing peace at the moment doesn’t mean when the offer of war presents itself some wouldn’t take it. The Mag’har would.
The AU Mag’har are the victims and survivors of an actual prolonged, cultural genocide by Light Fanatic Draenei. Which cost them their entire world. So the idea that they might be a bit aggro and skittish doesn’t bother me. Especially when they learn that the Alliance has people just like the ones that purged them on it. They could not be more fish out of water, and desperate refugee if you tried. That group has nothing left.
Beyond that, the Horde is not in any position to start crap. Even if they wanted to, which they don’t. The MU Orcs, Darkspear, and Forsaken are in horrific shape after BfA. The Bilgewater are going through a change of leadership. The ARs already felt shame for joining the Horde. Its done. I get that means, motive, or opportunity has never mattered for Blizz before … but the Faction is super broken at this point.
Nah he just was ok with it
Bondaging a person so it can’t fight back or move accordingly is another form of torture.
No he was ok with it which speaks highly how un-paladin he has become. Uther told Arthas if they let vengeance cloud their minds, they won’t be better than their enemies as they just do the same actions and in most DnD paladin charts, unless it is a lawful evil one, no a single one supports tortures and will fight back to even save a murderer from it, specially if done with dark magic.
Have you miss the build up for Legion with Garrosh and SL with Sylvanas?
Order 66 in the lightforged? I can see it happening
Nah, he is a softy that goes along with the flow. Literally he follows like a puppy either a wind chime or his wife drawing him to do actions he doesn’t want while he weakely protest.
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yeah but did you notice that all those in favor of this peace treaty are in Shadowlandsm leaving the war mongers on the Alliance side behind.
If Turalyon attacks Quel’thalas (because it’s vulnerable with Lorethemar helping Rokhan and acting on behalf of the Horde council, if he shows favoritism to his own people over the Zandalari, Talanji will be on him so hard, and Rokhan has already made in clear he sides with Talanji on this.
Like you said, the Maghar could see Turalyon as another light crazed zealot and Gallywix is still a literal loose canon with an azerite stockplie and a canon.
There is sort of a sad reality to that. Since both Villains of the Horde led to these expansions (Sylvanas directly into SLs, Garrosh indirectly through WoD into Legion) … yeah, the Horde did sort of take the fall of these. Is it really so unreasonable that an Alliance character be made to do the same? Even indirectly? Or have their Faith and Trust be used against them like so many Horde characters have?
That being said, Turalyon isn’t as passive against the Horde as his dialogue would suggest. His actions, with him attempting to kill Faol; his assisting his wife in torture; his contempt for even the idea of “Horde Paladins” … suggest he’s doesn’t have an overtly positive opinion on the Red Faction. Which makes sense, as he shouldn’t given his experiences. Him agreeing with Anduin that acting prematurely is risky doesn’t necessarily preclude he would not be open to acting at all. Depending on the circumstances presented him. Him commenting on how one’s heart and mind should not be ignored for Faith in the Light, does not really discuss if that opinion is shared for an “evil mind and heart”.
I did notice. I also noticed that Talanji is the only one with the incentive to start picking Fights. And she is too dependent on the Horde, and has too much internal national issues to deal with to be picking international fights. Her nations infrastructure is too weak to think about war.
- The MU Orcs are led by Thrall atm, but in his absence its Eitrigg. He’s pretty mellow. He opposed Garrosh’s antagonism with the Alliance, he’s unlikely to be antagonistic himself. Neither is Rexxar.
- The current Darkspear Leader is Rokhan, who has never in his history ever started a fight. He only ever gets really invested in ending that fight on the Horde’s terms once it has started.
- In Baine’s absence, the Kali Tauren are led by Hamuul. I would assume that Mayla is also temping while handling her own people’s issues. These two are the furthest thing you can to a Warmonger.
- The Forsaken’s current leaders are Voss and Calia. Calia is dinking around in the SLs atm, so that leaves Voss to hold down the fort. She’s got enough problems on her hands.
- Lor’themar and Thalyssra are leading the Horde Elves. The prior is liable to fight to the death to defend the Horde if the Alliance starts something, but neither are prone to go on the offense.
- The current Trade Prince of the Bilgewater Cartel is GAZLOWE, not Wix. Wix cuts his losses at the end of 8.2.5 and disappears. Thrall then requests Gazlowe to take that empty seat. He’s pretty chill.
- Ji is Ji. Like all Pandaren, he’s neglected and never used.
- Geya’rah does not have enough power (literally or politically) despite her having a seat on the council to push the Horde to war. Her people are also the MOST destitute out of any Horde member. She has enough problems on her hands with her fragment of a people left.
- Kiro seems VERY unlikely to press his Vulpera into another world conflict.
So … no. On top of the Horde having to rebuild its entire central system of governance as a result of BfA, I cannot see the Horde spoiling for another war any time soon. The Council is too fresh, and too untested. Many of its members equally untested. There is no one left to pick a fight of note left on the Horde. If such a fight is coming, its going to have to come from the Alliance.
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If the Alliance committed genocide that would be as bad as the Horde.
True. I had said that, but the other poster was suggesting that rather than moral equality by the Alliance going down to the Horde’s level, that the Horde should instead rise to the Alliance’s level.
With how Blizz writes Ally races, I not convinced they wont try to whitewash or invalidate the Lightbound’s literal, intentional, prolonged, systematic, and largely successful Cultural Genocide of apparently all of AU Draenor (not JUST the Orcs, as we see Saberon and Botani sneak into Eitriggs escape magic). If they are allowed to return. Like, truly, you think the Orcs had it bad? Man, I cannot fathom what became of the Shadow Worshipping Arrakoa on AU Draenor in the face of the Lightbound.
Not sure if this is canonical or not but don’t Rokhan and Turalyon have beef because of the Arathi Warfront?
But you are right the Horde is not in a position to start a fight but what if they are not the ones to start it?
Genn is always itching for a fight and maybe the land they take back is implied to be Gilneas? I can see Genn trying to reclaim his own land and possibly taking back Lordaeron for the Alliance (which i think Calia will have a lot to say about that when she gets back)
Overall I think there is enough meat on the Alliance/Horde petty squabbles front to keep us all interested for at least a couple more expansions.
yeah but the Alliance’s moral high ground is built on quicksand.
The question remains to be seen if the Alliance would sink to the Horde’s level if they were not already on the high ground. A game changing weapon would make all the difference. The Alliance would have no moral reservations about wiping out the Horde if the option were available to them, and that lies the heart of the problem. The Horde is fighting to survive.
The balance of power is skewed Alliance.
Which is why Blizz keeps throwing as much sand as needed to maintain it. That’s the problem. They seem to not recognize the Alliance’s moral absolutism as a problem, and feel it must always be maintained. Personally, as a Horde fan, I do not want the Faction Conflict to ever return on a story level so long as the Blue Team maintains that monopoly on morality and virtue.
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Considering we only know the Mag’har’s side of the story, something tells me you’re going to settle for nothing less than the Lightbound being a blatant allegory for a certain WW2 political party from Germany, complete with brand new custom goose-step marching animations and a series of draenic lines meant to reference Yrel but phonetically similar to certain commonly used phrases of soldiers from the aforementioned WW2 political party.
If instead we discover that, say, the Draenei had been keeping pockets of Draenor alive and healthy, and it was only the Orcs’ lands that were in decline, and that Saberon and Arrakoa joined the Draenei willingly, well I don’t think you’d be the only player crying out that the whole situation got whitewashed. In reality, we don’t know anything other than what the Mag’har have told/shown us.
I think it’d be far more interesting if the AU Draenei had been manipulated by AU Xe’ra. I think we’re overdue to see those certain zealous forces in the Light acting as antagonists in a serious way rather than as the joke the Scarlet Crusade has become. I think if it turns out Yrel and the Draenei were actually saving Draenor and the Orcs were harming it somehow, that would be a massive wasted potential for a story.
But until we get the Draenei’s side of the events? I’m not going to make any judgments. I’d like to see a story where the Light is the antagonist, and Yrel and the AU Draenei have been well set up for that. I just won’t bet on it until we’ve got more information.
Knowing Blizzard? They’ve probably already forgotten about it.
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Wow, your reading comprehension is laced with personal bias.
Are we justifying Turalyon using the Light as a restraint as his wife gives an innocent mother a void lobotomy? “because she was danger to herself?”
Did you not think about the fact that his actions left a baby without a mother? or are all Horde animals to you?
That scene was specially written to horrify Alliance and Horde alike to just how disconnected Turalyon and Alleria are. Maybe the Thousand Years War they endured gave them PTSD, either way they should not be at the helm of the Alliance.
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I mean, I suppose he could’ve just let her thrash, pluck out her own eyes, or snap her spine or something instead?
Did you even read the book?
Or maybe he could have stopped Alleria from using the void as a weapon?!
Jesus Christ… some moral high ground you people have >.>
Turalyon even says his first instinct is to ply them for information by providing them food and shelter. that would have been what he should have done but he’s so terrified of his wife that he’s participating in her crimes.
It’s his inaction in this situation and his willingness to ignore his own best interest, and good instinct, for what? to keep his farce of a marriage?
A tool, in this case, to extract information. Lest it be forgotten, every other option to get the information was exhausted before it came to Alleria using the void to take the information more directly. Were time not a significant factor, I imagine they might’ve simply taken them prisoner and taken them to Hammerfall to get the Horde soldiers there to make them give the needed information instead.
So is this lobbied at me or the writers or… I don’t know who you’re exasperated at here. If it’s myself, scroll up and read more of my posts on the matter. I’ve outright stated what they did was evil. I’ve said they should be held accountable for it. Turalyon and Alleria are not evil people, but that doesn’t mean they cannot commit an evil action, or that an evil action makes them evil.
Did… did you read the book?