I don’t disagree, but I think you’re misrepresenting Turalyon.
If Turalyon goes raid boss, I fully expect he will be Lightbound by AU Xe’ra so thoroughly he won’t even know his own name anymore. He’ll being nothing more than a puppet, and in a rather satisfying twist, I imagine his last words would be, “Finally do I understand the pain of the Orcs…”
First time i mention this particularly to you, easy with your retorhic you may not want to come out as a sophist, ive never tried to use it as a blanked justification but your quote lacked the nuance of the entire parragraph and i wanted to let people to see that since all you’re doing is trying to push on your impression of turalyon which i disagree, from tide of darkness.
The battle that followed was surprisingly quick. Many of the orcs had seen Doomhammer‘s defeat, and their leader‘s collapse sent them into a panic. Many fled. Others dropped their weapons and surrendered—these were rounded up for imprisonment and, despite his earlier statement, Turalyon found he did not have it in himself to kill helpless prisoners, no matter what they done beforehand. Many did stand and fight, of course, but they were disorganized and dazed and proved little match for the resolute Alliance soldiers.
Also bigot? light blinded zealot? harsh and mistaken you cant deny he was convinced of “not all forsaken are bad” and he has demonstrated to be someone of reason and that can see shades of grey, you misquoted the parragraph obviously in your attempt to paint him on something he is not, a fervous light worshipper? fine, light crazed zealot? we have those in spades
*points to the scarlet crusade
he is not
For fricks sake, his wife is rocking some purple tentacles, you have made my case for me if he was a zealot he wouldve killed her a long time ago, except he loved her and had to accept that the void is a force that its not bad inherently, he is in a very peculiar position of having to change his entire wold view because things he saw as black and white are suddenly all grey after his vacation to the void and let me tell ya he is a very accepting person for what ive seen.
His reactions toward Illidan in Legion and Faol in Before the Storm indicate otherwise.
Wow, so this is pretty low and ignorant of you.
For your information, I actually got both quotes directly from WoWpedia, which in turn got them straight from the book I actually bothered to cite for you: World of Warcraft: Tides of Darkness, by Aaron Rosenberg.
I suggest you look it up, which should be easy considering I even bothered to cite the page numbers for you.
My point exactly.
He didn’t have to; did you miss the part where he allowed Xe’ra to imprison Alleria?
He has the potential to be.
He also has the potential to fall back into old habits, should a certain Light-forged space goat from another timeline come calling.
So did i, and what you got is from the same page as i did just a little bit down the road , ON THE SAME PAGE, because i did actually went looking for the book not just skimmed trough wowpedia.
Also its ok to be ignorant but ill still call your ad hominem, i just happen to have read lots about turalyon, and im well aware of the things he did/did not.
i am not ignorant for pointing out what you’re doing you’re misquoting the page and paiting turalyon on something he is not, im merely correcting a mistake.
Thats another diferent issue and a far cry from the light crazed zealot you claimed him to be.
Boy ad hominems, strawmen and moving the goalposts, you know those things hurt your argument instead of helping it right?
So, what is the reasonable reaction of seeing someone kill your Commander (Xe’ra did lead the Army of the Light, after all, and they had been following her orders), or for seeing the shambling body of your mentor? Lest we forget, Turalyon fought Death Knights of the Second War, which were the bodies of Knights of Stormwind inhabited by the souls of Orc Warlocks. Given what he knows of undeath through those encounters, his reaction to Faol is almost natural, but the fact he almost immediately realizes and accepts its not the same thing goes to show how open-minded Turalyon actually is.
He’s not a Light-Blinded Bigot. His reactions are extremely natural results of the perspective he’s developed over a lifespan far longer than he would otherwise naturally have lived.
So, I think you need to look up the definition of “misquoting.”
Because neither of us actually misquoted the text—we both correctly quoted it as it was written—but only one of us (you) accused the other (me) of doing so.
Which is pretty hypocritical considering your previous post read less like a well-written argument and more like a rant from a paladin fanboy.
Thats another diferent issue and a far cry from the light crazed zealot you claimed him to be.
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It really isn’t, but ok.
Saying “Turalyon has the potential to go back to being a zealot under the right/wrong influence” isn’t even remotely a “separate issue.”
You do realize name-dropping expressions like “ad hominem! Strawman!” doesn’t automatically make you appear intelligent, right? You’re literally just throwing around accusations without even bothering to qualify them.
I feel like I should warn you that trying to character assassinate and mudsling the other person in a debate almost always backfires, for obvious reasons.
My argument speaks for me, you’re the one trying to make turalyon something he is not.
Anyone that wants to see who’s right just has to scroll up, i am not the one that purposefully cherry picked quotes from wowpedia to paint turalyon as a light crazed bigot when he is not and calling the other one ignorant trying to sound smart.
I dont care what you think about me, i just hope posters can see turalyon for real with the right information instead of just cherry picking quotes to fit my argument, i will also wont be answering you further.
So first, these actually are two separate issues, for reasons I’m happy to go into:
Anduin Lothar died valiantly in battle against (what was then) a race of demon-crazed, bloodthirsty orcs. Of course Turalyon was right to avenge him.
Illidan Stormrage, meanwhile, was quite literally acting out of self-defense; Xe’ra was attempting to forcibly brand him against his will. This is something that even Velen acknowledges, even if he wishes Illidan could have handled it differently.
Turalyon, on the other hand, immediately reacts with, “You’ve doomed us all, BETRAYER!!!”, before trying to up and murder Illidan.
I mean, it’s understandable, to be sure—it’s pretty much the same reaction we see of every living human who meets their undead relatives. Taken on its own, I would agree with you, if it were an isolated example.
But taken in context with all the other points that we’ve seen re: Turalyon, a different sort of picture emerges.
I think our definitions of what should be considered “natural behavior” are going to differ here.
Was it “natural” of him to allow his aforementioned “commander” (Xe’ra) to imprison his wife, for example?
I have provided examples from the lore. So have you.
See, and this is why your comments come off as childish, at best.
We both “cherry-picked” quotes to fit our respective arguments; that’s how debating works.
I didn’t call you “ignorant” because I thought it would make me sound smart.
I called you “ignorant” because you accused me of misquoting the text, twice, before launching into a full-on fanboy rant.
Ditto.
I just hope posters come to their own conclusions, based on what they’ve read.
Good talk.
To be fair, Blizzard isn’t know for subtle storytelling.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, then it’s almost always Mallardux, Fowl-Lord of the Avian Order, destroyer of Worlds, hoarder of Bread, rightful ruler of all water, and we need to go pluck his feathers for phat lewtz.
Probably because he believed Illidan had doomed them all, rather than because Illidan has horns, wings, hooves, and fel for eyes. Again, he killed Turalyon’s commander, and the Army of the Light had been waiting on Xe’ra’s return to end the Legion. To him it really did seem as if Illidan had doomed them.
That’s going to get into questions I don’t have answers for, such as:
To what extent was Xe’ra influencing him? When she dies we see his eyes go from Gold to Brown.
Was he aware Alleria knew she would be imprisoned for her return? If so, was he respecting her wishes?
Not only was he born in Lordaeron but i’m pretty sure he was also a Noble. Which would probably give him extra pull among the Scarlets & other Lordaeron Humans. Excluding Calia Menethil, he’s the only notable Lordaeron leader that the Alliance or humanity in general would have to rally around.
Exiled AND stripped of his paladin status.
I’ll admit, this made me laugh. Well done 
Oh, I never thought it was an appearance thing; after all, the other two people in that scene are a pointy-eared woman with glowing blue eyes and a space goat with a tail.
I understand the reason for his outrage, with Illidan destroying Xe’ra.
But unlike Turalyon, Velen himself understands that Illidan was specifically acting out of self-defense.
That’s the issue here; it’s literally trying to argue that someone has committed cold-blooded murder because they killed someone who was trying to do them harm.
And your first point is why I think, even if Turalyon is a blind zealot, that’s not entirely his own fault.
It actually makes me think back to Day of the Dragon, where we see Deathwing as Lord Daval Prestor mind-controlling Terenas Menethil, Daelin Proudmoore, and Genn Greymane into thinking they need to go to war with Dalaran. Sure, they were being mind-controlled at the time, but then they were also a bunch of power-hungry bureaucrats to begin with.
And that’s something we’ve seen many times throughout the Warcraft series: the implication that, “a person’s character is a determining factor in how susceptible they are to outside (read: magical) suggestion” (from Old Gods, Black Dragonflight, Burning Legion, Naaru, etc.).
I think you could probably count on one hand how many truly-virtuous characters have been MC’d against their will.
Outside of Lordaeron though, there’s also Alterac and the area around the Dalaran Crater which you could say were “Old Alliance Territory.”
I’m not sure when/if we’ll see another CATA style revamp but it would be nice to see something done with them. An interesting scenario i’d like to see would be Alterac taken over either by Alliance allied Scarlets or absorbed by Stromgarde. Perhaps even Dalaran back in Hillsbrad sided with the Alliance again.
On the Horde side i think it would be interesting if the Forsaken took over Stratholme and made that their new city along with taking over most of the EPL. Tirisfal/Undercity & WPL could be sort of a no man’s land where there’s a lot of fighting and sabotage between the 2 factions.
You sound ready for the 5th war, personally i want to stay away from that noise.
The “real” Turalyon, according to the source material, is “inconsistently written”.
I do want this to happen. Have Zoval do something to sever our connection from Azeroth for a time and let Turalyon have some fun. Since the implied reason many of the less idealistic Alliance reps didn’t want to commit to wiping out the Horde is because they believed it wouldn’t be worth the cost … just have something offset that cost. Like, Yrel and the Lightbound showing up to shift the balance of power in the favor of the Alliance. All you’d really need is a sufficient catalyst to trigger that crusade. Something like “the assassination of Genn or Faol” by the LB and pinning it on the Horde, to reinforce we’re monsters.
Its not like the Alliance has a reason not to trust them. Especially with all the peaceniks locked away. Turalyon is backed by the House of Nobles and has a Dreadlord who has his ear. The Lightbound’s whole gimmick is “Saving us from ourselves” … which one paper sounds better at least. As antagonists, the Lightbound learn from the mistakes of the Iron Horde and come as “friends”; using the Alliance, coversion, and binding to gain a massive foothold on Azeroth before the Alliance realizes their deal with the shiny devil. And … it can usher us into the Light Cosmology Expac that we seem likely to get.
This allows the Alliance to get some much overdue hits in, and some nice grey injected into their veins. Allows the Horde Reps and Council left behind chances to get much needed testing and development. May address one of the bigger issues with Calia, helping to create a healthy rift between her and the Alliance for her people’s well-being. And might actually give the Horde a chance at some heroics again, helping us clean up an Alliance mess for once. It could also theoretically place positive attention on the Forsaken, AU Maghar, VElves and Lightforged. Its a great transition for heading back from the SLs.
Understandable. but i think that’s coming regardless. The seeds for it have already been planted imo. It might not be next expac but i think it’s on the horizon.
To be honest, I’m not entirely sure that was Velen’s stance on the matter. He was kind of just… there. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d even foreseen it happening. Naaru seem to come in two flavors and he’s mostly spent time with Naaru like A’dal, who are far more benevolent and tolerant of others. I’d argue the followers of the Light themselves come in those two flavors.
Zealots like Xe’ra and the Scarlet Crusade who see the Light as the ONLY truth.
Idealists like A’dal and the Argents who see the Light as a guiding force to achieve true good, but that it is part of a great picture, not the sole force of truth.
I think where we’ve disagreed is where Turalyon falls on this spectrum. For my part I do think he is more of an Idealist. His actions, his personal life, his words all reflect that. He’s probably closer to the Zealot end of the spectrum than most of the idealists we’ve seen, but most of those idealists are so far on that end of the spectrum (Anduin) that they are blinded in their own way by those ideals and refuse to see reality.
I mean… we can probably count on one hand how many truly-virtuous characters there are in the setting. Most all characters are shown to have flaws, to have shades of gray to them.
Personally I’m willing to wait and see where the ultimate idealist, the truest of the truly-virtuous, Anduin Wrynn, goes in Shadowlands. Will he be the next Lich King? I mean, even he is able to manifest the power of the Void.
Not to mention that literally the one person (Eitrigg) who has had a first-hand encounter with the Lightbound…is an orc of the Horde.
Somehow I doubt Turalyon would care to hear, “You can’t trust them, they enslaved the orcs!”
Like I said, old habits and repeating history.