this was in the past.
AAA and even hollywood is slowly learning the folly of catering to markets that don’t actually buy their product lol.
Activists are too busy posting on social media to buy things you see. They are in twitter for hours doing whatever it is they do.
Or are pirating the content off some dudes plex server or something really.
Companies only see 1 sale from this. the dude who bought it to rip to file share lol.
There is truth in this, too but I think Thrall felt responsible for Garrosh and also felt he let him down and that’s where the guilt comes from.
Shaman’s can call upon the elements but when you’re a shaman, calling on the elements can be as natural as an involuntary reflex.
So that should be considered as well.
Garrosh indeed appears in the volume #1 but you got to understand that Orc clans were not yet gathered by that point, which is why you see Blackhand and Orgrim defending themselves alone.
Still, an alternate universe. Blizzard even pushed even more towards to AU than past version with Chronicle v2.
However, with the release of World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, Blackhand’s design was changed to be nearly identical to his appearance in the Warcraft movie, with a black hand tattoo in place of a stone fist. Matt Burns explained that Blizzard had ultimately decided to move away from Blackhand’s Warlords of Draenor design and backstory; the main universe Blackhand may still have helped Orgrim retrieve the Doomhammer, but he was not consumed by fire.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170514183128/https://twitter.com/Burnzerker/status/840644510669402112
https://web.archive.org/web/20170514183201/https://twitter.com/Burnzerker/status/840644668308127744
I don’t know if you playd Dragonflight or not, but if you did the Infinite Dragonflight campaign part you’ll remember when we went with Eternus, Chromie and Nozdormu trying to save Eternus’s sister from the Black Dragonflight, only for the dragon to keep dying time and time again, regardless of what changes we’d do.
So, ultimately, Blizzard’s canonical for time traveling is that: you cannot change past events. You may change a bucket’s place, but that bucket and its fate will remain the same, which does correlate to in-game events that even though the Infinite Dragonflight messed with the timelime many times, we corrected it. So, either because we stopped them or because the event itself will happen regardless, it proves that the past cannot be changed.
So, here is my take:
AU Draenor was bound to rebel against Gul’dan regardless.
The legion couldn’t get to Draenor otherwise they would’ve done it to kill the Draenei (which was the very first reason why they “recruited” the Orcs).
Grom was the one that was going the one to reject Gul’dan and save the Orcs, just like he did later with Garrosh.
From everything that Blizzard shown: the past cannot be changed, and that is canon.
hmmm so right this happened after Garrosh so based on that it could have changed because of something he did.
To be fair a lot of the lore after Legion is near fanfiction and sometime not even based on the same rules they used before. I personally consider the oldschool lore taking precedent over the new one and while sure you can argue Blizzard is the one holding the powers I would then just call it bad story telling still.
Which is why I would also disagree with this. We have Chromie breaking that rule and in the books too there’s a lot of liberty taken on that part. Garrosh broke the rule and we had to fix the damage with the new timeline Gul’dan coming into our world. Even the whole concept of Titan timeline which is pushed seems to make it seems like it was forcefully made a certain way.
If you mean in the Makgora, no.
In such a duel, any restrictions are agreed upon by the participants. Garrosh didn’t say “No magic.” so his use of magic was permitted. This was established by other lore, not speculation.
If you mean in his marriage. Also no.
If you mean in his little league baseball game 30+ years ago. Probably.
I knew it! xd
I don’t think it matters if he really cheated or not, because thrall thinks he cheated. And that’s what first caused his enhancement problems.
So, can you prove that he did change anything? Is there a source for that?
The comic doesn’t show Garrosh doing anything, and Blackhand does exactly the same thing but here he gets infused with fire from the elements.
Also you completely ignored the source I provided showing that Blizzard intentionally decided to change drastically Blackhand away from similar visual of AU.
We can continue discussing even more differences, like the fact that there isn’t Maraad in AU Draenor, nor there was Main universe Yrel, and those beings existed before Garrosh arrived in AU Dranor.
As much as I dislike retcons, especially those that do not add anything or make the story better, I still take them as canon because, well, they are canon by the storyteller (Blizzard).
Fan fiction would be to think otherwise lol.
I think there is a better explanation for Dawn of the Infinite dungeon.
Those events were bound to happen and were part of the canonical timeline.
Which is why Eternus was never able to save her sister, so ultimately Nozdormu makes Eternus understand that they cannot change the past.
Garrosh interfered with that universe, but ultimately everything played according to its intended timeline.
You want me to blow your mind?
Kairoz knew that they couldn’t simply travel to the past and change the past, because even if they succeeded by doing so, it would prevent Garrosh from even being born, thus breaking continuity.
So Kairoz instead found another universe alternative that he could do what he wanted, because the time ways and the story was different there.
Of course blizzard will never talk about this ever again because of the mess it did.
Well there wasn’t any changes we can prove that happened before. Your example still happened after he got there. The elements can have changed opinion based on Garrosh actions or caused Blackhand to be more reckless, because he still burned his hand originally.
When a story ends up switching hands it can often lead to it feeling like a fanfiction or bad story telling. The new star wars are an example of that.
I think that’s a pretty copium theory that will be broken simply by the explanation of the titan timeline. Danuser went pretty hard with all being ordained, but were going back to Metzen.
But that doesn’t change that everything went the same way until Garrosh get there. There wasn’t zeppelins flying around or dystopic thing happening until Garrosh got there.
He is cheating on me with the elements. So yes.
I don’t understand the context though and I’m not going to read 135 posts to be able to.
So, all hypothesis but no facts right.
Well, I can’t deny that Garrosh appears in the #1 comic but there isn’t a timeline involved saying that #1 happened before #2 for example. At that point Gul’dan was already going to look for Ner’Zhul to use him to lure the clans together.
But for a certainty Garrosh did not interfere with Blackhand and Orgrim’s defense.
I have no comments here because I already said that I dislike the constant retconning that they’re doing.
Well, it could be seen as copium but then again your theories about Garrosh having done everything in AU Draenor aren’t copium theory either?
Not everything. And if it wasn’t for the retcons by chronicles we would’ve even more changes to the Main timeline, those that happened before Garrosh arrived in AU Draenor.
For example:
It was originally stated that Gul’dan was originally a member of the Shadowmoon clan and an apprentice to Ner’zhul, much like his main universe counterpart.
Harbingers appears to retcon this by saying that Gul’dan wiped out his former clan and that the village where he was born has been wiped from history. Interestingly, his crippled, weak and deformed body as well as the travel he made in his youth to the Throne of Elements are both reminiscent of the pale orcs.
So the change here is that Kil’Jaeden originally contacted Ner’Zhul through his communing with the spirits and misled him to cause the Orcs to attack the Draenei, when he found out he was deceived, Kil’Jaeden turned to Gul’dan, and made Gul’dan discredit Ner’zhul in front of everyone.
In #1 comic you can see that Gul’dan is already in contact with the Legion and has the blood of Mannoroth already… while Ner’zhul is just the Shadowmoon chieftain and there is no Gul’dan apprentice whatsoever, nor did he unite the clans.
Of course, it was retconned by Chronicles:
World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2 establishes that the original Gul’dan shares this one’s origins and joined the Shadowmoon afterward on orders from Kil’jaeden.
So, things are not worse for your theory because they retconned the Main Universe story to fit more like AU Draenor.
So, which is which now?
ask the stonemasons guild.
It is weird using the movie as a source to establish Cannon as the movie seemingly left out Nerzhul… And made Ogrimm Doomhammer a frostwolf. And Made Lothar kill Blackhand…
They used the visual for Blackhand, and confirmed that.
Well played.
i do try
How did you not see this coming when it’s been like this for ages on this forum?
And no, people should read lore, because he didn’t cheat.
theres always a list of rules for each combatant, its garroshes fault for not saying anything about magic or shirts.
i didn’t think thrall and cheating was such a major topic i don’t pay attention to wow lore i only got the idea for this topic bc trade and i were discussing thrall
It’s pretty much all we got right.
You’re making an hypothesis because you don’t believe it can be linked to Garrosh.
While I support the butterfly effect of Garrosh on the world because it seems mostly what happened with everything. We don’t know if it’s true but there’s not really tons of signs saying it isn’t.
As far as I understand, Garrosh appearance caused Guldan to become desperate and to contact the Legion sooner. It’s not like some of the specifics we got from the old story were perfect, they were mostly a ground base.