You aren’t paying for an advantage in WoW.
Sure you are. You’re paying for gold which you can then trade for items in carries. That’s the business model.
Pay to win games typically try to hide the money trail through a bunch of different currencies and systems to make it seem like you haven’t paid as much/tries to hide the pay to win systems in their blatancy.
Even the feeble attempts wow made has seemed to trick you to not noticing.
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That is what a pay to win game is. Pay to win means you can pay to get an advantage over others. That’s all it means. In some games you can pay more and obtain greater advantages and the only way to get near the top is to spend a ton. In other games, there is less you are able to obtain and players can compete without spending tons of game currency. Both are P2W. One is just worse.
I’ll say it slowly so maybe you can comprehend it.
By paying money you are not getting an advantage over someone that does not pay money.
That means that WoW is not pay to win.
Nope. I’m just not bad at the game and need to validate why I’m bad at the game by blaming the game being pay to win.
What are you talking about? You’re literally paying for items to directly get them. Everyone else has to put in time and energy.
It’s like joining a marathon and paying to be crowd surfed to the front and then declaring that you didn’t pay to win since everyone is capable of finishing the marathon.
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Im not a zoomer, but thanks for the ad hominem?
You can look at my gear, you can see I play the game, you can see its at a mid range level. I didnt buy any of it.
Seeking some sort of approval of people you will never meet (and now with crz, will not even see in the game again) seems to be sophomoric at best.
I added people to my friends list last night because they were amazing players, I didnt inspect them, I didnt look at their raider IO score, they just played well, they didnt stand in anything and they pumped their DPS. And I can guarantee you that I will invite them to another group.
It really doesnt matter that people are paying for gear, because I am not competing against them. I am not a world first or MDI skill level player. Maybe pvp is a different story and I could see why paying for that could be a problem.
If I sell you heroic clear you’re not getting an advantage over me.
You’re not getting any advantage in the game over someone that hasn’t paid for the carry
In order to be pay to win you have to gain an significant advantage over someone that doesn’t pay and that’s not the case in WoW.
You aren’t getting to the front. The people that are selling you the run are already finished. 
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It wasn’t an argument. Ad hominem is attacking someone’s character in place of an argument. I literally followed up the statement with an argument. Also “eternal zoomer” can be any age. It’s more of a childish mentality.
It also appears you didn’t read anything I wrote. Or you have no ability to comprehend the status involved with a shared online experience. You didn’t even remark on the proof of how people stand around to show off their gear. It’s part of the game. You may not like that and find it superficial, that’s irrelevant.
People play MMOs and take pride in their characters and like to show them off. P2W eliminates this, even if it’s just skipping the leveling experience. That’s part of the work that goes into the pride of your character.
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False. Suppose two players are about to compete in a PvP match tomorrow, and have the exact same gear and item level, skill level, and play the exact same amount of time in game. Player A goes to the game shop, spends $1000 in tokens, and spends some amount of the gold on a couple Mythic BoE pieces, upgrading his item level significantly. Player B spends the day farming dungeons, but obtains no gear. (Or the two players are competing for a Mythic Raid spot, or in the Mythic plus leaderboard. It doesn’t matter.)
How did Player A not pay to obtain an advantage over Player B? I’d love to hear.
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Raid spots, since if you’re meta slaving as the best class with better gear than someone then odds are you’ll get that raid spot over another who hasn’t got access to the kind of resources you’ve invested RL money into.
So you’re just trolling people.
Acting like your definition is the only definition isn’t going to end well for you.
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If player A has to spend 1000 dollars to get a couple of mythic BoE pieces just to win, there is another problem a foot. And it’s not the game. lol
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See, now THIS is an ad hominem. It doesn’t matter whether or not someone is bad at the game for the purposes of an argument. Arguments are independent of the persons who make them.
You know the other side of this farce of a debate is intellectually bankrupt when they’re reduced to claiming their opponents “must be bad at the game” in place of making an actual argument that selling gear and boosts for $$$$ somehow isn’t pay-to-win.
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There are multiple types of ad hominem, the one you employed is called poisoning the well. You preemptively tried to discredit any argument I would have based on a perceived lack of experience of a group you have disdain for “zoomers”.
Maybe 10 years ago. Not now, no one is chilling in org trying to show off gear in retail. Maybe in vanilla.
What’s your point here? There have certainly been times where Mythic BoEs have sold for gold cap before. In the 9.2 RWF, the top guilds all spent hundreds of millions of gold- between $30k - $100k US dollars worth of tokens. You can proclaim all you want that “this isn’t a problem with the game” and “LOL!” and “LMAO!” but you still have yet to present any argument for any of your unreasoned opinions.
Mind everyone, people were buying gold from 3rd party sites since the beginning of time. Like in every MMO. Does this make every MMO P2W now? Of course not.
/End of argument
All of them are in place of an argument. This was not the case. Applying an adjective to what you determine an opponent’s position represents is not ad hom unless you’re trying to use such a statement as an argument. I bet you misuse “strawman” at lot too. And no that’s not ad hominem either, it’s a speculation, not a submission of an argument.
If I said that you are an eternal zoomer so what you are saying is not true, that would be ad hominem.
I guess you can’t distinguish between games where Paying to Win is cheating, prohibited by the games rules, and bannable because it requires illegal RMT, and those where it is encouraged and lawful according to the game’s rules and mechanics.
I’m not sure why someone would have trouble here. The distinction between cheating and not-cheating, lawful and unlawful, is generally an easy one to make! Even young children can make this distinction with almost no trouble at all.
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People stop with the personal insults. If you can’t reply without attacking someone, then don’t reply at all.
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I just think this view is narrow because it excludes a lot of other very predatory games with extreme grinds.