Tell me did you automatically win any official competition with that power?
Because winning is the outcome of a contest or competition.
And before you fall back on achievements, let me tell you in advance, there is no achievement competition in WoW.
The only competition there is are those:
Can any amount of RM buy you a win in any of those?
I can say the same thing about Lost Ark… just because you have the best gear doesn’t mean you’re automatically gonna beat the content.
Won’t fight you on that, I haven’t played it yet to tell one way or another.
My point was applied strictly as to whether or not it was possible in WoW to win any official competition by throwing enough money at it.
I completely agree. It would seem like WoW is just a cash cow that they’re milking anymore… I would love for the game to have the same energy/vibes/good feels as it did during Vanilla/TBC/Wrath, even MoP, but it just seems like WoW is too big to fail, yet has been placed on the back burner for quite some time now. Leaving us nostalgic, and/or addicted. lol
In any meaningful situation? (RWF, R1 Arena, best M+ runs) No, absolutely not. Someone who bought their gear will stick out immediately lol.
In a casual, flexing on other casuals because they bought their gear way? Absolutely yes. lol
WTB invite to large guild doing carries, 250k pst me!
Oh yeah sure, 100% agree
Then again the term casual is an antonym to competitive/competition so…
So ThEn JuSt PaY tO wIn N3wB! /s
3rd Parties which break ToS. If me and 3 other guildies boost a player through a M+ dungeon for 150k gold that doesn’t break ToS. Thats why I emphasized ToS.
This thread is melting my brain cells
na, I’m good. Just look up older arguments I’ve had about this. I’m not interested in spending a few hours slowly making you understand that spending money to garner rewards that you wouldn’t otherwise get, or spending money to garner advantages, or spending money for completion of a game… is in fact pay to win. In fact it seems so obvious that it’s kind of strange that people don’t just understand this. Instead we have Clinton asking me what the meaning of is is.
I would say that WoW is P2W-adjacent or P2W-lite.
Gold is extremely easy to earn in the game despite all the groaning about it here on GD.
P2W traditionally refers to a game where you can buy a direct advantage. An example would be something like:
For $9.99 deal 5% more damage in dungeons and raids for 72 hours
Nothing like that exists in WoW.
Buying a token or 10 to get carried doesn’t even guarantee you get anything all that great. I’m sure if you’re getting funneled gear you’ll get something, but you have zero agency over what drops and could potentially get nothing you wanted from a run if RNG really hates you.
WTB friendship
WTS love and affection
Yeah, you’re still not grasping it. That’s OK.
Excellent example of an actual P2W mechanic.
Guess it depends on what you mean by “win” because that definition varies depending on who you’re talking to. You can definitely pay to excel or outpace. Wherever there’s demand somebody will supply. Considering the amount of people who love wow but don’t have time to sink into grinding, I see where the opportunity exists for some to capitalize by helping others catch up. And to play devil’s advocate here (I’m not for or against boosting), does it really impact the game if someone gets carried? Who does it hurt?
You are still paying Blizzard for gold which you are then using for carries. It’s P2W. You can continuously buy gold then buy runs and gear to improve your character to have all of the best gear. As well as achivements etc.
I think the issue at play is what are peoples definition of what “winning” is. Winning is generally a goal set by that person. Ie they want cutting edge title, full mythic raid gear, hard get get achievement. In WoW Retail its P2W because you can use IRL money for a currency (gold) to buy a service to get the goal (winning).
It seems that the people who don’t think WoW Retail is P2W are those who think Winning is World 1st Kills, Server 1sts, Alliance/Horde Hall of Fame, top 0.5% in PvP.
While those who think WoW Retail is P2W are those who think winning is full Mythic Raid/Mythic+/Elite Glad gear, cutting edge/AotC achivements, Grand Marshal titles.
Which is irreconcilable because, again, one of those is based an arbitrary personal definition of “win” and the other on the actual definition of “win” which is based on beating/defeating the competition.
We can’t go around saying that paying to get dressed equals “winning”.
Why bother learning any language if we’re just going to make up “personal definitions” on the fly instead of searching for the actual word that express our thought.
Its more like using the phone to use you’re gold, without going in game, and buying the piece of gear you want. It will be waiting in the mailbox when you enter the game.
People just do not get it, like Krad. If the game REQUIRES you to pay extra money(on top of the sub) to buy a specific piece of gear you want, and can not get it by playing the game, but can ONLY BUY IT, or in the case of games like Candy Crush buy boosts to advance, THAT again is pay to win!
WoW does not have that built into it, period, end of story.
The problem with the classic “pay to win” definition is that any game that has the ability to pay real life money to achieve a reward is a very barebones in a changing video game market.
For instance: FF14, WoW, and Lost Ark would all be by definition pay to win – but seeing all three of them here is very off-putting because you can accurately state that all three games have different levels to P2W. The definition is an all or nothing without any realm of spectrum. Either all games fitting the definition are P2W or they dont because there needs to be more clarification on this. For instance, does P2W include “player-driven economies”?
However, people who try to argue “Well WoW is p2w” as an argument defending P2W in Lost Ark is just classic deflection.