jw. i might play if sub performs well. but assa is too gd boring i cant do it anymore just gonna play dh instead 
reading between the lines, itâs likely that Subtlety is intentionally and deliberately undertuned at the moment so that players donât grow attached to a playstyle that is planned to receive significant change in the next expansion.
yes
6 Likes
meh. it better be cool in shadowkeep. i miss legion sub 
goremaws and DFA>dance>FATTY evis was so fun
5 Likes
Legion is the worst iteration of Subtlety that has ever existed in my 15 years of experience PvPing as a Subtlety Rogue. So pruned, streamlined, similar to other generic melees, stale, and streamlined.
The abilities you name so nostalgically are just boring damage buttons. Maybe Assassination or Havoc DH is a better fit for you.
6 Likes
ouch that got harsh in a hurry. dont get me wrong i played in the days of hemo prep swords but the game is just completely different now. just comparing what sub is now to what it was most recently and how it was severely downgraded. fortunately i have wow classic to play the old version of the rogue class itself 
1 Like
Good at what? PvE itâs going to be behind the other two, but definitely has a spot in 2v2 PvP and of course bgs.
You can be a cc monster and with shadowy duel lock down a healer for absurd amounts of time with 3x stuns, shadowy duel, kicks, sap, blind.
Youâre giving up Assassination to play the most braindead spec in the game?
4 Likes
Iâm not pining for hemo prep swords. Classic and TBC were great but Shadow Dance really made the spec special. In Legion though they pruned just about everything outside of Dance and made it just a Dance bot. Extremely boring and one dimensional.
They pruned a bunch of our CCs to make room for the stupid, one dimensional cheap shot spam playstyleâŚ
2 Likes
Depends on what you mean by goodâŚ
If you mean âGoodâ as in fun to play and is actually a SUB rogue again as in Patch 5.4.8 or earlier then I will just assume youâre out of luck.
If you mean âGoodâ as in it will exact good DPS in situations that suit it, then likely because Blizzard has got to put it on the Buff / Nerf rollercoaster that all classes ride on; everyone gets a turn at the top and bottomâŚ
Short answer: no. Blizzard fundamentally broke Sub with post-Zul nerf, they just removed a big part of the spec without adding anything else in return. Most of the azerite traits donât synergyse with each other or the talents Sub have like for example Secret Technique, which always bring the spec to subpar levels. Until next expansion and a complete rework of the spec, Sub will remain at average level at best.
For average content, you can play Sub without much issue, you can do HC raiding and such as long you play at a decent level, but is hard to stomach the feeling that everything you can do, other specs can and will do MUCH better, including our own Sin for raiding/pvp or Outlaw for M+.
1 Like
Subtlety was a spec for PvPers for 15 and Blizzard ruined it completely for that audience.
Meanwhile PvErs be like: âlet me give you an analysis that looks solely at the numbersâ
JFC talk about tone deafness and missing the point entirely
3 Likes
Personal attacks bring nothing of value to the discussion.
There is no such thing as a âPvP specâ, anything in the game can be used for both sides of content. Some specs offer a better toolkit to deal with players, and others to PvE content, but this never excluded players from participating on both worlds with the spec they like.
Overall tuning, which is mostly noticed on PvE, directly affects class performance on PvP as well. The lack of dedicated gear, stats or specific templates for PvP makes this one issue much more noticeable in BfA.
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Subtlety was the âPvPâ Rogue spec for a decade. Iâm not saying that it shouldnât be viable in PvE, Iâm saying that the Legion changes and pruning ruined it for the PvP audience.
5 Likes
Dude, we get it. Youâve only spent every moment in othersâ threads, related or unrelated, hijacking the conversation and making it what you want it to be.
Enough is enough. Stop trying to derail threads. This isnât about your beloved âye olde subtlety rogue of pvp yonderâ, so stop.
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The topic of this thread is âis Subtlety going to be any good in the patchâ
The answer is no, it isnât â it hasnât been good since Legion prepatch went live
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And let me let you in on another secret. Did you ever bother to stop and consider why Subtlety seems deliberately undertuned at the moment? Could it be that the undertuning is in fact deliberate? Do you think thatâs a more likely explanation than â$8bn company doesnât know which specs are undertunedâ ? Gee, do you think that is possible?
Subtlety is deliberately undertuned because Blizzard is planning changes in 9.0 and they donât want people getting attached to the current design. This isnât even the first time they have done this, they do it all the time and even admitted to it with demonology warlocks in WoD.
1 Like
Iâm not gonna say youâre wrong, but I had alot of fun with sub in legion. Mostly because I could DROP FROM THE SKY LIKE BATMAN and suffer zero fall damage as I pounce upon my unsuspecting enemies.
Pvp servers were fun.
2 Likes
You could be right.
Iâm not convinced you are the most discerning audience.