Is Sin just that much better?
Sub feels more fun to play, but not many people play it competitively. Is this because Sin is just in such a great spot, or that Sub is really that bad, or a combination of both?
sub is always fun in random BG’s because you can screw with so many people at once
2 Likes
This, and the fact that sub is stupidly gear dependent. You can play sin with any gear and do fine. With enough vers mast you can play sub and still be pretty viable. But even then sin just outshines it and is less punishing. In my opinion at least.
2 Likes
Fun to play but you quickly realize how bad the damage is in this patch. It needs major reworks to be good again.
5 Likes
I’m having fun with sub in random BGs, but I can’t say it shines in Rated content. You need to be really skilled and have a good comp to do something. Check EvaxionX and Xaryu for example, they are extremely skilled players and shred in Arenas as sub.
I had some luck with corruptions tho. I have a 12% more mastery one, a Mastery proc one and a 4% more crit damage. When all those babies work together, along with agility procs from the cloak or trinket, I can hit some people for 200k eviscerates in BGs.
But you gotta get the mindset that you really need to chose if you want to do damage or have control. I’d say that the most selective talent in that aspect is Marked for Death vs Deeper Stratagem. Try out Deeper Stratagem and see if you like. You’ll definitively notice the difference in damage.
Don’t forget your 3x traits of Night’s Vengeance tho.
Have fun.
Subtlety has two things that put it in a bad place.
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It is very unforgiving. Sub’s strength (what little there is) comes from setting up burst windows for Shadow Dance. The problem is there are so many things that can screw it up. There is no room for error. Because of this, Shadow Dance is basically nothing more than a Backstab buff.
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Damage was nerfed back in 8.1 due to a gimmick raid mechanic. Rather than address the mechanic, Blizzard nerfed Subtlety and hasn’t bothered to compensate the spec.
So, you’re left with an unforgiving spec that does mediocre damage. Compare that to Assassination which is very forgiving and does really well on the damage meters.
4 Likes
I liked sub later in legion when the meta started to change from assass but now it just feels so clunky and it feels like when I hit NV, I’m just whipping my enemy with a pool noodle and the duration even at 5cp feels very short.
I miss the old sub. Blizz needs to bring back old sub, make it revolve around bleeds and take the bleeds out of assass and make that spec all about poisons, and scrap outlaw and bring combat back to wrath era. Kill off revealing strike and bandits guile buff. Stupid crap gimmick.
1 Like
I’m on the side of subs dmg being fine.
You can play it competitively. You will have to work harder but it’s doable. Stack versa/mastery. 3x nights vengeance and 1x first dance.
You can play two builds. One is a little more dmg and the other has more access to shadow dance which allows for more access to peels or CC recover if your partner gets stopped on their cc.
You can look at my stats and talents. I play the 3 dance build BUT I got the dmg one for certain teams or bgs.
That emphasizes my point above. Why do twice the work for half the pay.
I really wanted Subtlety to be good this expansion and felt good about it while I was leveling. But then, the more I played it the less excited I was about it.
I really hope Blizzard gets it right for Shadowlands.
Well I will say “more work” isn’t necessarily a “bad” thing.
It’s just how it’s mechanically designed. You have to watch your drs and dmg modifiers. Which can change depending on what’s going on.
Assa is simple and straight forward and there isn’t any room for deviations. You don’t have off target cc outside of blind and sap. All your dmg is based on 25secs with toxic blade kidney.
Assa lacks deviations and different setups so it’s typically brain dead.
Sub requires you to actually think and use your brain a little. It’s not a lot of work and effort. It’s quite simple, but assa is based around to abilities every 25secs. Vendetta you pretty much press on cool down and maintain two long lasting bleeds.
There are nuances to Assassination that allow it to be every bit as engaging as Subtlety. It’s not as “brain dead” as people make it out to be.
If you enjoy Subtlety and are having success with it, more power to you.
I enjoy Subtlety, this expansion it is almost more so a non healing utility support type of class the same way Spy is in TF2. SUBTERFUGE!!
So much utility to stun and deny someone from ever engaging in team fights.
The real place for this spec to shine is going to be in battlegrounds.
Outlaw and Assassination simply perform better dps wise.
If we had PVP gear vendors it would help hide the flaws of Sub and Outlaw by being able to stack certain stats (eg Versa).
Last night in skirmish my normal 6-combo BtE hit a geared DK for less than 6K, and I have 20% versatility…
Outlaw is merely a cc supportive spec in arenas. Sub hit a lot harder with mastery.
I like them all
I can tell this is absolutely true as I met you in a Random BG last week and you simply destroyed me. That same day I went to your profile and checked your gear, talents and all. You’re a great player, keep it up!
1 Like
Thank you lol.
I feel like I remember seeing a video of your character on YouTube iirc.
We run into each other often in unrated pvp. The trick to dmg is solely on traits and stat stacking no doubt for sub.