I’m going to preface this by making the assumption that you don’t actually know how to read statistics, because one of the most important factors you left out in the beginning here is over-representation. They’re currently the most played spec by a large margin in Solo Shuffle. Yes, on average, they might have a win-rate around 51%, but they also have double the players of the next 2 highest specs over 1800, and more than quadruple the representation of the majority of the specs in the game. A difference like that would indicate that even lower skilled players are finding above average success with the spec, resulting in the lower 50s performance. It is not until the highest bracket of 2800+ where they are not the dominant spec, and then then, they’re in a 3 way tie for it.
Yes, the ret hate is justified, the spec is much too good for how easy it is.
3 Likes
everyone play ret, so ret hunter evoker got 50% win rate. You have no choice and have to play ret in order to counter ret.
So for example, you have a class A doing 1000 damage, and another class B doing 100 damage, B lose all the game, so players have to play A, and A win rate decrease from 100% to 50%.
When I play random BGs and half the lobby is pink, or green, it makes me sad.
Most people on here are talking about arena, but even in randoms it is obvious how far people have gravitated towards the class. I have NEVER seen so many rets in my life, more than even right after the rework. Most of them are not great players, but it just sucks when a class is so overpopulated that it removes the diversity right out of the game. Just watching morons in bubbles smack eachother at mid.
4 Likes
Try being splay or literally anything into cupid 12/15 games man lmao, its actually crazily unwinnable
Ret is an unkiteable juggernaut and bm procs fenryr once and the games over
2 Likes
Right and I get the complaints, but a lot of the posts are just whining from players that aren’t very good (meaning they have lots of room to improve).
Ret is fine. The real region (EU) knows how to handle them and this will be shown in the AWC.
Well the issue is the players complaining are at their respectable cr/mmr, getting dunked on by kids worse than them who end up being 500cr above them. Its actually extremely unfair. I see rets at 2400+ who legit don’t have sanc or sac bound
7 Likes
Seeing you mention the win rate, you want to express that being so close to 50% is definitely very ordinary. But I want to tell you: the win rate of ret+ret VS ret+ret is undoubtedly 50%.
Ret is also their most represented spec
Hitting enemies to death in a stun is always amusing when I’m (and you too) the one with the ability.
If you think that median MMR is meaningless and only top players should be considered, how about this analysis where the top 20 players of each spec per region (NA/EU) be looked at, so the top 40 players in shuffle of each spec:
| Spec |
Avg Rating |
Median Rating |
Win Ratio (%) |
| paladin/retribution |
2726.2 (+161.1) |
2733.0 (+170.0) |
58.0% (+3.5) |
| hunter/marksmanship |
2654.2 (+89.1) |
2653.0 (+90.0) |
55.7% (+1.2) |
| demonhunter/havoc |
2653.2 (+88.1) |
2649.5 (+86.5) |
54.5% (+0.0) |
| mage/arcane |
2649.7 (+84.6) |
2654.0 (+91.0) |
57.2% (+2.7) |
| deathknight/unholy |
2643.3 (+78.2) |
2656.5 (+93.5) |
57.6% (+3.1) |
| hunter/beastmastery |
2640.5 (+75.4) |
2644.0 (+81.0) |
55.1% (+0.6) |
| mage/fire |
2631.4 (+66.3) |
2621.0 (+58.0) |
60.0% (+5.5) |
| druid/balance |
2629.4 (+64.3) |
2614.5 (+51.5) |
57.7% (+3.2) |
| warlock/destruction |
2622.3 (+57.2) |
2582.5 (+19.5) |
55.3% (+0.8) |
| rogue/assassination |
2609.4 (+44.3) |
2605.0 (+42.0) |
54.6% (+0.1) |
| warrior/fury |
2602.0 (+36.9) |
2586.5 (+23.5) |
55.0% (+0.5) |
| hunter/survival |
2593.4 (+28.3) |
2564.0 (+1.0) |
56.6% (+2.1) |
| priest/shadow |
2591.2 (+26.1) |
2575.5 (+12.5) |
53.2% (-1.3) |
| shaman/enhancement |
2579.2 (+14.1) |
2572.0 (+9.0) |
56.3% (+1.8) |
| warlock/demonology |
2557.7 (-7.4) |
2536.0 (-27.0) |
53.2% (-1.3) |
| warlock/affliction |
2557.0 (-8.1) |
2540.0 (-23.0) |
53.5% (-1.0) |
| warrior/arms |
2540.0 (-25.1) |
2540.5 (-22.5) |
52.8% (-1.7) |
| evoker/devastation |
2530.5 (-34.6) |
2532.0 (-31.0) |
53.9% (-0.6) |
| monk/windwalker |
2503.7 (-61.4) |
2484.0 (-79.0) |
52.8% (-1.7) |
| shaman/elemental |
2503.0 (-62.1) |
2461.0 (-102.0) |
52.5% (-2.0) |
| druid/feral |
2480.0 (-85.1) |
2466.5 (-96.5) |
51.5% (-3.0) |
The deviation from the overall average is shown in the brackets.
The average rating of the top 40 Ret players worldwide (NA/EU) is 161.1 points higher than the expected average. Ret also scores 3.5 percentage points higher than average in terms of win ratio.
So while Ret is without any doubt S+, and the usual suspects such as DH, Arcane/Fire, UDK, and MM/BM are very strong in S tier, we have Feral, Ele, and WW that are hanging around somewhere in C tier. Feral and Ele got buffed recently, the urgently needed buffs for WW are still missing though!
6 Likes
This is why true data and context matters.
If I made a windwalker how high do you think I could get in shuffle? I have zero previous experience on the class
WW is quite easy to handle at low and mid ratings and also strong because people don’t react to your burst and don’t kite you much, so you will quickly get to 2200+ MMR. The issues start against the top 5% players, especially those with high mobility.
But I would think, based on your 2800 current shuffle cr as Ret, you could maybe get to 2300-2400 if your frustration level allows you to keep playing for that long. 
I would say, to reach Elite rank would be quite a challenge!
But it also depends on the build you might play. As SPan it is easier than it is for Conduit.
1 Like
Sounds like a plan, got a build that’s good? What stats do you go for? I’ll have to level one in the next few days
Did you avoid including healers and tanks manually, or are they not included because of some arbitrary rating cut off?
I think murloc.io might be your friend here.
SPan is usually better at higher ratings as long as you can assure decent uptime. Conduit becomes better against high mobile teams like Mage+Deva or MM+Mage or similar. Also against heavy CC+Burst comps like RMP, because you have better defense with Conduit and the CC immunity.
Stat prio is easy. Go for ~30% versa and put the rest into mastery (overcapping is fine). As Conduit you only want 2 set, as SPan you need 4 set to be good.
But like I have said, you might want to review everything on murloc.io. Some people always play SPan no matter of what comp they face, some swap depending on the comp. Some play without Slicing Winds to get more Flurry procs but also because SW bugs out quite often and becomes unavailable until a relog, others like me think its one of the best DPS abilities and also fun to play, so I play it with both hero trees.
Find the build that fits best for you and your playstyle.
I just added most DPS specs, but also not all. DPS specs that are barely played are not included simply because they would show a wrong picture. For example would Outlaw become the worst spec, even though its quite decent but rarely played.
1 Like