Given the AoE uncapping buffs both sin and sub and not outlaw, outlaw is potentially dead. We’re already behind in ST (not by much though) and now we’ll be dead last in 6+ target AoE.
I know gouge is secret OP in M+, but that’s all we’ll bring over our other specs if these changes go through as listed.
I don’t know why they would nerf the highest APM spec to be the worst DPS in all content… Hopefully before these changes are finalized they add Blade Flurry to the uncapping (or maybe make it hit like a truck in 2-5 target cleave).
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It’s unfortunate but yeah, if blade flurry remains capped after 9.1.5 then the class will be dead on arrival. I timed all 20s on my outlaw rogue, was just forced to switch to sub (hate the spec) 3 days ago because outlaw just can’t pump the trash numbers other classes can. On fort weeks I cannot get invited to 21+ keys
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9.1.5 changes are not finalized. First round changes doesn’t mean BF will remain untouched later on. Given the nature of BF, it’s possible they might be reworking\tweaking it differently than just slapping aoe uncapped on it.
Stop freaking out, Outlaw is not dead.
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Pretty much. Actually, all the rogue specs are DOA.
You can replace rogue with any melee spec now, but 9.1.5 means the dead of the class.
Why bring a rogue when you can bring a warr/monk for raid buff+higher AOE/ST dmg?
I don’t even want to know how big the difference will be since all of Arms/Fury abilities are basically uncapped in 9.1.5.
But there is no way any Rogue spec can catch up to a warrior DPS currently or in the future.
I don’t know how they even balance this game after 5+ years of “testing” since BFA.
Warr/Monk/DH/DK/Pally have damage AND raid-wide utilities.
Rogues bring nothing to a raid.
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Show me hard proof that ww and warriors beat rogues on ST. Getting dunked on in damage in a pug doesn’t count.
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Spec is absolutely dead in every key outside of Theater next patch if they don’t uncap BF. Well at least with legendary scrapping you can turn all your useless Law legos into Sub ones.
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Okay first off to the few people in here saying outlaw does poor single target you surely know that outlaw is the top single target spec in the game right? Even when not factoring in dom set bonuses outlaw just pumps super hard single target.
Now to the topic, I would find it very strange if blizzard didn’t do something for outlaw. I don’t really see a reason they would just delete the spec like that. It’s too early to be worrying about it though. If they end up not changing outlaw then I guess we’ll just play sin or sub. Not a huge deal. If outlaw is dead hopefully sin is the top dog because sub is too boring to hold my attention in keys and would probably just not do them anymore, which is fine really. Most gear from keys is garbage now because of dom sockets.
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yes its as dead as combat speciliazation was for classic wow source just trust me bro
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Outlaw will definitely not be a M+ superstar anymore if they don’t address BF. But this early in the PTR cycle and just a small preview. It is a small preview because of Labor Day weekend. There will be more builds with additional balance changes in the coming weeks. Now if reaches Oct and there are no balances changes then yes it is GG for the Yahtzee spec.
Outlaw is “OK” (not poor) in ST, but definitely not S-tier based on raidlogs (reality) and sims, so I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from… Also, you need cruciform and syl dagger OH (which never frikin’ drops!) to get close to those other pumpers. Mind you sin and sub also want syl dag (good luck bros!) to compete with other strong ST classes. I have some top 100 parses as outlaw so I’m not talking out of my but here.
I’m fine with outlaw currently. It’s annoying to be the only class that brings no raids buffs / utility other than cloak, but w/e. However if everyone BUT outlaw benefits from target cap loosening, then we’re kinda screwed.
The sky isn’t falling yet… but who honestly still has faith in blizz balance tweaks? Boomy anyone?
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Outlaw is a top performer on heroic and mythic guardian once you look past external buffs. Also many of the top outlaw rogues aren’t even using BIS st covenant nor talents. There can be a lot of improvements there. The top outlaw rogue is of a comparatively low ilvl and doesn’t even have dagger yet. We are a long way from a cap and I have personally beat my sim on that fight so expecting to meet sims as outlaw in a realistic environment isn’t outlandish on this fight. Outlaw is extremely good in ST, especially in an m+ environment with resets and the lack of ramp required.
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In literal full BIS we’re technically the highest simming spec in the game for raid but obviously sims don’t equal actual gameplay. The reality is you’re just going to have pulls were you’re perma energy starved because Sinister Strike wont proc and neither will Combat Potency. We also rely on Winds of Winter crits for damage as well. The pulls where you don’t have to SS 20 times in a row without a proc and you actually get crits we pop off hard.
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I don’t really ever have energy issues with killing spree if you use it when low on energy it essentially fills my bar up no matter what. Ironically when I run blade rush is when I run into energy issues.
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I disagree completely, to say Outlaw is “dead” is a bit of an outreach.
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I disagree completely, to say Outlaw is “dead” is a bit of an outreach.
Your reasoning totally convinced me…
And? Reasons?
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Eh probably because even if these changes scale linearly (super op) they wont effect raiding or standard pull low keys (15 and under) and as outlaw it’s not hard to already push 10k dps in keys. So 99% of people won’t even be affected by them. If they are some weird square root scaling instead of linear then the dps gains may be minor and not much will change.
But either way they change it if nothing is done with outlaw then it will be essentially dead in high keys. There isn’t any way around this fact.
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I’m just a scrubby F&F raider but raidbots tells me I should be doing 7.5k and I usually do 6.5k.
Getting grand melee RtB a lot makes me cry.
I miss my strong pre-SL AoE. 
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If you care about parsing just play sub. Its 1/3 the effort for about the same damage.
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Think about it …look at how outlaw was in bfa , super fun felt powerful to play now look at lame shadowlands version, capped to 4 targets like an ape, when u can play ranged classes and be uncapped its ridiculous honestly ppl that don’t have a problem with target capping are ppl that never done m+ or did higher keys other then there casual pug 15 it feels Awful you feel like you class is useless atleast I do.
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Chaining GM is absolute trash but the reality is that our buffs have almost nothing to do with the “RNG” problem with Outlaw. Assuming you don’t follow reroll logic and literally never reroll early it’s only a 1% dps loss.
The problem with Outlaw is not getting Sinister Strike procs and getting energy returns from Combat Potency and both of those lead to energy starvation if you’re unlucky.
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