You’ve been playing with some crap mages.
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Generally speaking, NF + FW is advised for your average 15 key regardless of week.
For higher level keys, necro and having the tank pull around deathborne becomes more viable, with slick ice or cold front performing similarly. Freezing Rain is not advised until +20 with consistent very large pulls.
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Too low of a key to do dmg
15+s and up but I need to do 8 of them.
lmao.
It must be something in the conjured water. Every mage I’ve played with in the last week, save 1, did sub tank dps. And this is in 19/20’s.
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Fire and frost are reliant on the tank not moving the trash much for consistent aoe. Arcane is reliant on not having a movement affix to do damage since they need to ground themselves for their combo every 45 seconds or so.
Well,
- Fire was nerfed to the ground at the patch, however, they were kind of buffed back to mid pack on the logs. Their tier is pretty garbo, and they rly only do all that good on higher keys bc the mobs are alive long enough to make use of ignite dot. Not to mention that they are severely haste dependent.
- Frost’s tier set was pretty big, but the spec was nerfed with the patch. The spec relies heavily on ice veins being up nearly 100%, so when the group doesn’t pull fast enough, frost suffers. Not to mention that frost is a more consistent dmg spec, not so much a burst spec. It does require the 4 piece/dual leggo to be revelent. It’s a mid range spec as well.
- Arcane is nice in m+ bc of their cds being up nearly every pull. The tier set was ehh for arcane but what really sucks for arcane is that much of its dmg comes from totm and if the mobs die before it goes off, then their dps substantially suffers. Mid-low spec.
So, as you can see, mages do suffer a bit in m+, and the most common reason is that the toolkits just don’t match up with the content.
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Hardest? I thought you only had to fire blast in to pyroblast, or is there more at level cap?
Spec balance aside, all specs who are reliant on long CD burst windows are going to be affected way worse from the tank not pulling around them than those specs who play around short, low CD burst windows. A wasted combustion or infernal is much worse in terms of dps loss than a wasted recklessness. Not to mention the DoT specs, they suffer when trash dies too quickly since they arent able to ramp up their damage nor spread it to enough targets.
So, if your dps cant make good use of their damage toolkit because the tank isnt pulling optimally, their dps isnt going to be very good. On top of that, this week is not a good one for dps comparison because the Explosive affix is one of the most disruptive, specially in pugs where people may not be very used to dealing with them, some people may pay more attention to explosives than to properly executing their rotation. Which is good, lower dps is better than wiping, but it is something to take into account, specially considering bigger pulls cause way more explosives to spawn.
Finally, some tanks can do ridiculous damage specially in big pulls. Sometimes a tank can do like 15k dps overall. How many pugs in a 15 do 15k dps overall?
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True.
The other day I was running a 16, and all the dps were over 15k and the tank was maintaining about 13k dps.
Plus with some specs, a pull or two you will have 30k, and the next 2 pulls you have 7-9k dps. So the relation between a dps’s numbers and a tank’s numbers are relative at best.
Both my arcane mage and my ret paladin have the same ilevel.
Ret average dps in LFR : 8k
Arcane average dps in LFR : 5k
Bad players pick mage because everyone tells them mages are always good.
in SD today we had some mage let everyone know he’s in dratnos’ guild- or something forgettable like that.
He pulled the full first hallway and died.
When we waited for him to run back and got to the first relic, meters say he rouletted so we got Wo xD
According to meters he did zero damage to explosions up to first boss.
On first boss I had to tell him to timewarp xD
There was 1 other thing before first boss showing how much of a joker this guy was, but I forget, I can’t keep up with the stupidity.
But yea, shoddy betas pick mages because that’s what they’re told.
Dunno about frost or arcane, but fire needs coordination from the tank on pulls to line up with cooldowns to really shine. When fire doesn’t have a boatload of mobs to mow down its output is trash.
This is reflected in outdoor play, which fire also sucks at.
I really wish fire were reverted to a past more balanced design where it’s not so ridiculously good at AoE, but performs better in other situations.
I used to main a Mage. It was my first ever character. But I haven’t played one with any real conviction for ages. Sometime in the middle of the last patch I decided to give Frost a try because I heard they were in a good spot. I looked at the best stats and what the rotation was like, including talents. I had it down in a few minutes and once I had some meh gear from LFR and open world stuff, I could consistently be in the top for various group activities…however I must confess that I’m one of the few that actually wants to play my character optimally even in LFR situations so that may also have had some influence. So if they were doing that terribly, they clearly just didn’t give a crap. Or are just bad.
all mages require some sort of coordination, as arcane I’ve had issues with tank kiting, barrage “aoe” is pretty smalll ._.
Frost is all about not moving stuff out of their orb + blizzard AND chain pulling fastso they can keep rolling their cds
So all three specs are highly situational… not great from a class design perspective.
Arcane very much prefers Double-Tripple pulls when it can but the big deal is that it NEEDS the tank to be mindful of threat, An arcane Mage can EASILY without any remorse or warning rip threat on multiple mobs at the same time and because they are typically always in Melee range it becomes… dangerous.
Pullsize>Clusteredmobs>Threat. These are what an arcane mage needs.
Explosives are more or less done by the healer in any key worth doing,. Not your mage.
Yes, I see you’re not familiar with SD and how many bombs there might be in the large pulls, thanks for your input though 
Also, you forgot this context for the viewers at home:
Actually I am quite familiar with SD given it’s my favourite Dungeon, And again Explosives are primarily done by your healer, With the Occasional step in from one of the other 4 members of the group in any key worth it’s weight.
As for the rest of your statement, It wasn’t Relevant, I was only bringing up that particular part of it, The dude was still crap.
yea, but like, there can be a lot of explosions, especially in a pug can’t rely on primarily 1 person, big team effort. Just wouldn’t want you to get the idea in mages’ heads that they can’t shoot a missle or ice lance here or there xD