Well, if people are just going to quit soon as they gear, why did they get the gear at all?
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compared to raids, it is.
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How many aspect crests do you have from raiding?
How many times per week can you try to get a specific item from raids?
M+ isn’t a loot fountain itself. But by comparison to the alternative, it’s a freaking loot waterfall.
Out of 16 items equipped, two are raid drops. Everything else is M+ or M+ vault slots / drops used as catalyst fodder.
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Lmao no it isnt. You don’t get aspect crests from heroic raids.
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Bud, literately 9 of your pieces of equipped gear is from M+. I’d say that is pretty rewarding lol.
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11 if you account for crafted pieces as he never did mythic raid for aspects.
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No one is that sweaty. That’s like 20-25 keys a day lol.
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At the start of the tier, when gearing is most important, M+ absolutely dumpsters on raid gear in terms of quantity, which is far more important to quality.
Who cares if a belt is slightly better optimized in raid if you gotta wait til next week to have a shot at it. Just farm a slightly crappier belt in M+ and then replace it for a 50 DPS upgrade in like three weeks when it drops.
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Even in the long term I’m currently 485 near 486 without mythic raiding when the best geared people in the world are 489 which I think is the cap or very close to without legendary or mythic fyrakk trinket which can go to 496, which even if you get CE you’ll probably never get the trinkets anyway.
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It’s not always better, though. Personal loot gives more rings, cloaks, and necks than group loot making it harder to get any other item type. There are also a lot larger loot pools in M+ than raid bosses making it harder to get any specific slot/item from those M+ keys. It honestly comes down to what your goal is as to which is better.
For getting the most items per hour, farm raid bosses are better until saved.
For getting the most items per hour while raid progging, keys are better.
For getting the most possible items in a week, keys are better.
For getting tier pieces faster, farm raid bosses are better until saved.
For targeting specific pieces, farm raid bosses are better until saved.
For maximizing vault item level while raid progging, keys are better.
Even on the low end taking 150 dungeons into account at a generous 20 minutes per dungeon, that’s FIFTY HOURS PER WEEK on just doing the actual dungeon. That’s not counting the travel time, repair time, prep time. This is also assuming you’re running with the same people and not having to wait on anyone doing a smoke break (probably less frequent now a days), kids break, bio break.
All this to say, you’re being very disingenuous.
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you get about 1 drop every 2.5 runs if nobody trades you anything. compared to 1 drop per 5 raid bosses, this is a slower pace of loot acquisition if the raid is on farm. you run out of raid to do after 9 bosses though lol.
they often clear heroic as a guild because they need a lot of raid trinkets and players have better odds of getting them in a guild run than in a pug
That’s why I play the game idk
^ This. Getting higher ilvl gear doing m11s vs Heroic raiding is imo why people call M+ loot fountains. m11s aren’t that hard and takes maybe 20-30 mins a run? VS Heroic raiding which can take weeks to just clear for the first time, plus you need a lot more than just 4 other people and yourself and you will spend multiple hours a night to work on progression (unless you are paying for a carry from a guild who has it on farm).
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Who in their right mind is running this many a week, holy crap
It’s a slower pace if killing 2 raid bosses takes you more time than completing a key. Then if we go to 4 raid bosses versus 2 keys, you have to include the travel time to get from key 1 to key 2.
The problem with these arguments is people use terms that can be defined in different way, like pace, and use them without further clarification as if their meaning can’t be interpreted in multiple ways. The rate by which you can gear your character from item level X to Y is undeniably faster in keys (short of having the most unbelievable luck in a single raid to completely gear up) because you can run as many keys as you want to keep getting more items.
But when people talk about raid gearing pace being better, they’re referring to how you can make use of your time until you are saved to the raid. Nearly every group with X raid bosses on farm will be able to clear 2X raid bosses in less real time than completing a single appropriately level key to get an equivalent item track piece. So if you have 10 hours to play in a week, the single most efficient period of time from a gear perspective is going to be the time you spend killing raid bosses your group can routinely one-shot. Once you are saved to all such bosses, that method disappears since you can’t get any more items from that source, and keys shoot up in efficiency as they are definitely the next best option.
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Ummm.
From an overall perspective: quantity yes, quality no.
Raid typically has the trinkets and special weapons you want. M+ is going to help you fill out your slots better.
Crests super suck for raid, that needs buffed. Full clearing heroic raid should have you full up on aspect and wyrm crests.
Raid quantity sucks, and chasing specific items for raid sucks. Raid loot needs doubled and maybe even made infinitely farmable up through heroic.
Both M+ and raid need a dinar system every .5 patch which can be done using vault tokens and crests. By the time we’re 2 months in, all the magic of RNG has died and is now in the way instead of fun.
M+ needs slightly better/more interesting items. Even if it’s just like one or two really cool items per patch.
Both forms of content could use better long-term, non-power rewards that signify your progress through each one. Mirror pvp for each and see where that takes you.
I was able to hit 470 after 3 weeks on my first character. So I’d say yes. The key is to realize intellect/strength/agility/stamina are your biggest increases so bis can wait. Also helps to be in groups that clear.
Also also helps to realize M+ is just as time consuming as raiding.
I ran a bunch of keys over the last few weeks on a variety of characters and I think my DK got to KSM without ever seeing any gear.