You miss the point entirely, and farming a boss you’ve killed and collected loot from is far different from progressing on a boss.
My hypothetical is you have to pick a bosses HP value at some point. Do you take into account that most groups will have PI and increase the bosses hp to account for that, which would hurt a group that doesn’t have access to PI thus making it more difficult for them; or do you ignore that PI exists and balance around it not existing and let groups with it blow past dps checks. Either way, or at some point in between you hurt or help one group or another so yes PI is far too good to just be tossed on top of someone else CD’s. It makes sense as a self only cd like every other big dps increasing cooldown in the game.
Neither, because class stacking has a WAY bigger impact on tuning than PI. Stacking the strongest spec for the fight is a way more significant variable.
The point you don’t seem to be getting is Blizzard doesn’t tune anything nearly that tight where PI is making the difference, which is why class stacking isn’t that common or required (beyond a few WF exceptions, but remember they are racing to clear the raid first, not to just clear it. WF is really PVP in a sense against other guilds).
There is no fight in the game where it’s now impossible without PI, because that would have already meant it’s not possible for all but a handful of dps specs in the entire game WAY before it reached that point.
And after the race it only gets easier as Blizzard hacks the raid with nerfs, further diminishing its importance.
I never said impossible and you still fail to grasp this simple concept so I will create a hypothetical using an example from the raid.
Anduin on Heroic summons a Monstrous Soul that you need to defeat before it finishes casting a spell - the spell is not interruptible nor can the mob be affected by any CC.
So lets just use easy numbers for comprehension. Lets assume raid dps is 100 on average or what they assume it to be, and the cast lasts 6 seconds and it doesn’t start casting till 50%.
So we could give it 1,000 hps that would mean the raid would basically need to focus it the entire time.
Or we could give it 500 hps now the raid would only need to focus it for 5 seconds, or maybe get by through cleaving it.
But what if Blizz actually says well… potential dps because if you PI 2 demonology warlocks here is actually 150, and then adjusts those above numbers… which because it is an actual dps check in a fight they may well have done, now PI is affecting fight design and mob health and hurting groups that don’t have it.
Never did I say it was impossible, can they get through it, sure they just have to either save cooldowns or have more people single target into the mob - either way though they are now disadvantaged because they did not bring Power Infusion to the fight that Blizzard may well have balanced around.
i actively used to tell priest not to give it to me or id just die of aggro in m+ lol, also imagine needing PI, all external simp buffs should go away and while there at it re add buff scrolls and unnerf drums
The key is your “assumed raid dps” which is based on a massive variance depending on your raid comp, gear, and most importantly individual and collective skill, that having PI is a small component of.
You cant just toss out saying PI is a 50% raid dps buff like your extreme example does.
Debating it is pointless though. We’ve already seen PI in the DF talent tree and it looks like it’s staying.
So you are saying people guess instead? Scream over discord? Seems like a really suboptimal way of coordinating an external buff.
Can be pretty bad for sure, but if that FotM player is also a good player you would be gimping yourself not to. Same if you had two randoms, you would give it to the stronger spec.
It wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
I never said it was a PI issue, I said it encouraged giving PI to the better performing spec regardless of actual class synergy. It rewards Blizzard’s poor balance, as well as those who lean towards it.
Nice conjecture. If you look over my posts you would have seen that I said I like PI as an ability.
All I said was the design is poorly suited to how the game has evolved and to ignore how the game is actually played is a massive oversight.
Claiming that it doesn’t have any implications in regards to the social design of the ability is simply naive.
If you’re in a coordinated group, you’re talking about it beforehand and having it planned out. If it’s a pug I pay attention to who the top dps is and give it to them. Not rocket science.
Yeah if they’re doing as well as other DPS sure. In all likelihood they’re still learning the class and undergeared though.
Regardless. Pi isn’t causing fotm. Blizzard does that with little to no balancing. Fotm has always been a thing. So stop focusing on the wrong thing, aka pi.
Eh for most of us there is no issue. It’s mostly just an issue with petty people who would rather top the chart than help their guild down a boss.
Pi is fine. Bring back some support stuff for shaman’s and paladins.
Actually this is the only way to give feedback on the proposed tree which they’ve said is subject to changes, so since there is no alpha or beta to give feedback on this is pretty much the only place to give feedback on that PI is bad for this game and needs to be seriously looked at.
How about don’t axe a fun, unique ability just because it means you don’t get a certain colored number on a third party website? Do people forget that we’re playing an RPG, and having buff abilities is kinda, like, a core aspect of those?
Change it to replicate a percentage of damage done and give that to the priest if you have to, but I’d rather not just nuke a spell entirely.
Season 1 Marksmanship Hunters and Affliction Warlocks. (Marks nerfed mid tier, affliction after tier.
Season 2: Venthry Boomie (nerfed after tier).
Season 3: Demo locks may be op without PI but have you seen them WITH PI? Apparently its even better to PI their tyrant as well than another player. So well see if they get nerfed for S4 but S4 doesn’t even really count since its just weird recycled content. For S1 and S2 the winners of PI were nerfed.
ive had it thrown on me maybe 3 times all season. 1 of those times was just to troll the lock but the other 2 times i yelled at the priest for wasting a pi. what good is pi gonna do for me as feral when haste is useless when you could put it on anybody else that uses haste. it doesnt add anything. would be more interesting if it add a chance for a extra hit like windfury or something
Season 1 Marksman nerf was a bugfix (Wild Spirits unintentially double dipping with Serpent Sting leggo), and affliction wasn’t even in the top 5 best PI targets in CN.
Season 2 Venthyr Balance was overwhelmingly powerful even without PI. Most high end groups were running minimum 4 of them in Sanctum, and they weren’t all getting PI. This spec singlehandedly allowed guilds to skip mechanics/phases during progression because of their sheer amount of burst regardless of not having PI.
Season 3 Demo was ahead of every other class even when they didn’t get PI. Even now, they’re number two.
The evidence just doesn’t line up to PI being the culprit, even if it was good for some of these classes.
And look at Venthyr boomkins now - Bottom. Is that because they were over-nerfed because of the PI data skewing it?
Also, PI is stupidly strong so does a group with mulitiple PI’s just have a big advantage in terms of a hard dps check vs one without (I,E, how does Blizz balance hps, assuming PI’s are in the raid or ignoring them?) If Blizz balances around PI it puts groups without it at a big disadvantage, if they ignore it it lets groups with PI easily make dps checks.
The spell deserves serious attention not just being blown off.
No, they took a nerf to Sinful Hysteria and were quite good still at the start of the patch. Their tier set being weak is the largest contributor to where they are balance-wise. Also, Balance logs are heavily skewed because of fight timings. Venthyr is still the highest theoretical build for balance, but if fights die at, say 2 minutes, 5 minutes, etc…basically any time close to where they would otherwise get an extra use of their cooldowns, they lose a large portion of damage compared to other classes where their damage isn’t almost exclusively packed into their cd windows (3 minute windows at that).
You can see that reflected in the logs too, set it to max percentile. Obviously max percentile isn’t the best way to view a class’s performance, but it will give you a good idea as to why Balance appears lower than it’s actual theoretical output.
A priest’s PI doesn’t contribute an obscene amount of damage in the grand scheme of things. The highest DPS log for a holy Paladin on the Jailer is 5272, the highest holy priest log is 3580. The highest theoretical PI dps gain (fire mage) sims at roughly 1800 dps. Doesn’t seem too far off the mark.
This isn’t really making a case for nerfing PI. Even before PI was put back into the game, Resto druids struggled to compete with the best damage healers.
Sucks as a Priest having to give up your own personal cooldown because it provides more value to others.
Sucks as a non-Priest when your class is reliant on PI and it’s mistimed or not given at all.
Does nothing but create drama.
And it’s not even an especially interesting buff. It’s not like Innervate which does something niche, which can create interesting play patterns. It’s just Haste.
Many priests like having a button that does exactly that, and besides this argument has nothing to do with why people hate it. No one is arguing that Life Grip should be removed from the game.
There’s 0 evidence that this is a thing. There’s a lot of people blaming PI for getting their overtuned spec nerfed, but no evidence of that actually being a thing.
Player problem.
Innervate is just mana, if we’re being equal in our oversimplifications.