I always give PI in Mythic + to the lowest dps … Than the Top dps always ask why ? 
Well it’s team play?
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Oh I see first it was priest doing damage while healing now it’s lust and tw ,are we really beating the bush again?
FF also bans people for showing meters publicly, too. WoW does not. If WoW banned people for linking meters, I don’t think anyone would care AS much, but they would still care, and yeah I know people in FF use discord and other mediums to show/link meters. My point is the game devs themselves ban players outright for doing this publicly, while WoW does not.
I do, however, think nothing will be lost if it goes to a self only buff and everything will be gained from it going to a self only buff.
It makes more sense to be a self only buff. It makes less sense to the player playing the toon that they need to give their CD to someone else. Outside of Innervate, no other CD is like this in the game. I’d even argue Innervate, too, should be the same way, a self only buff, but way less healers complain about that than people, of all roles, do about PI.
Less drama in the game, less drama period just making PI a self only cast.
There’s a couple others. Ironbark and Pain Suppression for instance. But I imagine people care less about those because they don’t do anything for a player’s throughput. It’s very obvious that the party benefits more from the tank getting a massive DR before a tank buster than it is a random DPS getting it at a random time.
My issue though is that the same logic applies to PI as well. The party benefits more from PI being used on a strong DPS at the height of their CDs than it does going to someone else. If the Priest’s only goal is to maximize the throughput of the group rather than any one individual, then that’s something they’ll plan out ahead of time. Indeed my guild regularly talks in our Discord chat about who would be the best recipient of PI at certain points in a fight and no one sheds any tears over it.
I am of the camp that if the issue is that PI is unique in being the only throughput-boosting external cooldown then my solution is to give other classes throughput-boosting external cooldowns as well. I think that external cooldowns makes the game more interesting than their absence does so I’d rather make them more common as opposed to eliminate them.
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Yeah that’s what I was referring to. People don’t care that it’s an external, people care about it impacting DPS/HPS so much by itself, alone, but moreso I think it’s just the throughput aspect of it, realistically speaking, that people hate.
I very highly disagree with this set, as your guild is very niche. What I mean is if you guys don’t cry bout it, that’s very very rare. Most guilds will fall into people complaining about not receiving it category over people not complaining about it.
I think they cause more drama than they’re worth, actually. From both a guild, and a pug standpoint even moreso, they cause a lot of drama amongst the groups.
Either make it self buff, or kill it, yeah.
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Imagine removing a spell from the game because people complain about not receiving it. Sounds absurd for me, as it’s not actually breaking anything in game, just a player behaviour stuff.
I remember when dark intent was a thing and completely broke shadow priests when they didn’t get it from their friendly warlock
I’ll agree to disagree on your conclusion. But I do appreciate the back and forth we’ve had. Feels more civil than a lot of the other PI discussions I’ve had. I actually agree with most of your reasonings, we just diverge near the end when you form your conclusion.
I get that people don’t want to deal with the drama, neither do I, but I’m not sure that the entire design space of external buffs is a price I’m willing to pay for that. Obviously as you said my guild may very well be an anomaly so I won’t have to deal with it either way. But I’d rather play the game with external buffs if that’s the case.
Keep it but make it go on like a random 3 dps 
Troll all the way
That wouldn’t even be the first time we’ve had something like that. There were multiple Legion artifact powers that would put some secondary stat or another on X random raid mates when you did Y.
Yeah, seems like a way to keep the spell’s intended support design. Give the buff to the player with less haste in the group or something like that. No choice made, less drama I guess.
Imagine just not making the move in the game that causes a lot of drama, either gone from the game so there’s no drama concerning that spell or just making it a self only buff so again, there’s no drama in the game.
Guilds have actually broken up before from the drama it has created, much like how politics ends up causing people to stop being friends in the real world with a lot of people.
Things happen, comments get said, discussions get heated, tempers rise, things get said more, and before ya know it an avalanche has occured. That’s how people are more often than not, and that’s why there’s so much drama around things in the game, from loot, races, specs, spec designs, game systems, raids, mechanics, dungeons, race politics, etc.
That might have been before I started playing seriously. I would have enjoyed that convo, too.
Yeah, definitely.
Interesting because Ironbark and Pain Suppression are only comparable in that they are considered external buffs and yes they don’t increase or decrease damage. Here is a few other spells that share that: Rejuvenation, Heal, Flash Heal, Healing Wave etc.
Lets think about this another way, a Priest player gets to spend talent points for a talent that they get the privilege of giving away! But for two more points they can also keep it for themselves. Yay.
Or how about this what classes benefit the most from PI by tier this expansion:
Castle Nathria: Marksmanship Hunters, Aff Lock. (Hunters “bug fix” mid tier stopped hunters from getting PI after that).
Sanctum of Domination: Venthyr Boomkins. (Boomkins nerfed into the ground the next tier).
Sepulcher of the First Ones: Demonology/Destro Warlocks: (Destro warlocks were almost nerfed midtier but its been delayed to season 4.
So pretty much every class that extremely benefits from PI gets nerfed in the next patch. Does anyone really believe this ability can be balanced if they just keep playing whack a mole and nerfing whatever class benefits the most?
Also, even just theoretically if you are designing a boss in a world where PI exists do you have to account for its potential there? Does that now make it so a raid lacking PI is at a disadvantage because they’ve actually balanced around having more damage than any class brings for itself.
Back in cata dark intent was a shared buff between the warlock and whomever he chose. Warlock would always get the benefit and everyone else was fighting over who would get chosen
This isn’t the 5D math problem you think it is. Like I said earlier, there’s only one number that matters and that’s total group throughput. If having a Priest with PI makes that number larger than it should be then Blizzard will nerf it. But I think that’s a different conversation from whether or not external throughput buffs should remain in the game. They’re not impossible to balance.
Oh, fair, all I was doing then was leveling up characters and questing around, doing dailies, nothing actually serious in the game. I did do some random bgs here and there, but yeah total filthy casual.
No, they just like the idea of throwing out support spells n stuff, that’s all it is mainly.
It’s sad that PI is seen as “toxic”. It’s an ability that is designed with the betterment of the raid group in mind (bring the Priest to buff a friend). PVE content devolving into a competition amongst friends instead of collaboration (“I want the PI so my numbers/parses are high!” Vs “who is the best person to give PI to so we can kill this boss?”) Is really sad to see, imo.
This is an MMO. It should be about what’s best for the raid group, not the individual. If you think it’s “toxic” to be “forced” to use PI on your friend instead of yourself, I think you’re playing the wrong game. Or, at least, maybe organised raiding isn’t for you.
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I don’t care one way or the other. To me, it’s just one global every two minutes. Not a big deal, get rid of it if you want. People who ask for my PI need to know that it’s not related to your overall performance, it’s related to the cooldowns I see y’all using and when my PI is available. Sure you would do 10% more dps with PI but I’m not leaving it for 38 seconds to make that happen. I PI who benefits most when it comes off cd. Hint: it’s almost always the lock.
Pi helps the group. If the party or raid gets better dps. Is that not good for the whole party/raids ?
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Bring the player, not the class. Except the encounters are balanced around PI because it’s such a damage increase, and only priests can bring it.