Snorf. Stomp.
Okay. You win. That was perfect.
Saw someone requiring 380+ for mythic Antoras the burning throne. Last expansions raid content 10 lvls below
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Your point somehow shifted from “it’s important to give back to the community by helping new players learn” to “well you don’t KNOW that every low-geared/low-io player needs help learning, maybe they’re actually good!” which is kind of a different argument.
Regardless, if I’m using raider io and/or ilvl to pick pugs for my group, that is more like looking at a resume than being racist.
Not that this applies to me personally because I don’t pug. Which makes me wonder, am I still “morally wrong” in your estimation by choosing to only run with guildies? Because I’m not bringing any more new/undergeared players to my runs than those exclusive pug listings are.
My point never shifted. There are simply two aspects of it.
First, assuming someone who has lower-than-415 gear is somehow ignorant of the upcoming encounters, unwilling or unable to learn them, and/or is looking only for an easy carry is very poor decision-making. There are any number of reasons that a player with full knowledge of the encounters might not yet have 415 gear all around.
Second, the issue of excluding folks from participation because you don’t want to bother with anyone who doesn’t know the encounters is, to my mind, a bit selfish. We all had a first time. We all had a second time. If you’ve got 4 x 415 geared folks going into a run then “giving back” would include allowing someone in with, say, only 405 gear or 400 gear.
I have no problem with running only with guildies. I mentioned that. Guildies come first, always.
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This one of those “I agree with your concept” but “probably doesn’t work the way you want, even in the best of cases”
For example, I can tank a M+13 just fine, but pulling me into a M+25 to tank for a team that is 3500 rated (I’m 1000 rated) is not going to be a good experience for either of us. I’d prob wipe the team on their first skip that I don’t know about, haha.
Works the other way too, I ran a +12 for people who were 200 to 400 IO rated, it was Siege and it took us over 2 hours. That’s a LOT to ask when I just timed it with better rated group. I did it because they are friends, but I’m saying take it to the next step - should I be carrying non-friends like that? Hard to stomach it.
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It’s not that not having a certain I’ll or io score INSURES that your bad, it’s that to a complete stranger it is an unnecessary risk.
People have lives outside of wow, and they may not want to spend the limited time they have with charity work on blown Keyes and such.
It’s not that I don’t understand the struggle, I just leveled a new main after having been unsubscribed for 4 months, despite having done 9s 10s and 11s I struggle to get groups.
The past two weeks I’ve blown through my own 3 and 6’s only to get +8 keys and have anyone with an IO score above 400 shun my listing or request an invite only to reject, and thus I’m stuck with lfr heroes with literally 0 m+ clears under their belt.
But I’m not gunna sit here and b!tch like the rest of you about how the meanies Ingame won’t join my group because they’re all just bigots.
Instead I’ll suck it up and spend a little extra time per week doing world tours of 4’s then 6’s then 7’s so people are more inclined to invite me to 8-9s and eventually 10s
Strangers having fun playing their own way, aren’t obligated to look favorably on you for no reason, nor should you expect such a thing
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did you get hard from that?
My dad is an elitist healer he is lets just sya he told me this “if your not healing im not going to play in your group” cuz he got tired of healing cuz thats what he did before THEN he said he did this when he played " i healed but ewhen the tank didnt aggroe or the dps didnt DPS id let htem die and then leave the group without reviving them." he also cAalls himself an elitist like its a good thing and he stopped playing when cata hit cuz they “ruined” druid… He said he wants me too enjoy this but its hard when i cant play what i wanna play (enh) oh and that group thing i meantioned OH YEA its for a norm quest group not rsaid or PvP.
I just think it’s funny that someone can say “clear heroic”, but have a low score at the same time. Maybe don’t be so elitist in the future. Also, “there’s always a bigger fish”.
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It’s actually gotten better. When WoW launched the elitism was so much worse.
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i preach this to my godchild all the time. he’s a bit autistic- he knows he’s smart and sometimes bullies. when i find out he’s bullying, i always tell him, “you’re gonna try being mean to the wrong person one day boy… just remember- there’s always someone bigger and badder than you out there.”
If your attempt was to look at my profile denigrate what type of keys I do to make a point was a very poor and stupid one. Then you go on to say:
"[quote=“Iammyscars-kelthuzad, post:499, topic:196199”]
These players then go on to think that all they needed to do harder content was a higher ilvl, when that was never the case. They are now interacting with higher skilled players more often and we run into this situation of experiencing “elitism” more often.
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First off, where did you get the idea that running harder content equates to high ilvl? Where in this discussion, where in what I’ve said did you get that impression? Simply put, if you’re arrogant and rude because you believe you are skilled and I am not based on merely looking at my gear does imply you are an elitist.
By the way, I think any key higher than +10 is technically a “high key” now, when you get into +15-18 those are “higher keys” its bvasically the syntax on the English language usage. SMH
You can tell if someone is highly practiced though. Which is a better metric than “skill” when you don’t have a technical manual to define what are good and bad skills.
Very good point. As was mentioned here, are the differences between running a +12 and +25 dependent upon purely knowing mechanics, gear, and skill or is it simply knowing mechanics and having high end gear?
Because someone can step in Mythic BOD without having to step foot in a +25. One can know the mechanics of Mythic BOD and have cleared it but has never stepped foot into a high +25 key
I get your sentiment, i sympathize to an extent. But freedom of association is where I generally take this topic when it comes up. It’s important to let people choose who they associate with, to do other wise is to claim their debt to you IMO. We don’t owe other players anything and we are not owed in return.
If you don’t get taken to a group because of IO score or what ever, would you then be taken if that measurement was removed? I would venture to say that the participation in the group finder from those people using scores to weed out people would just stop using the finder at all and go back to OpenRaids website and join communities that excluded the same people who got excluded before.
You can never change the system such that the elitist wants to bring in the casual, or force the elitist take the casual…They would rather not play. And forcing them out of the game for not wanting to play with others doesn’t help the others at all. It does nothing to improve the situation for anyone. It’s just malice. (not that that was what you were calling for at all, its just the common conclusion i see in these topics).
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Elitism in Vanilla wasn’t a problem unless you were raiding or you kept pulling with your pet or didn’t heal or whatever. Most guilds that didn’t get into raiding and just ran dungeons with some pickup raids here or there were pretty casual and very social oriented.
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Highly practiced and skilled I think are interchangeable terms. Because to be skilled one must become highly practiced.
your point?
One is the ability to adapt to new stuff at the same difficulty or higher, skill. Practiced is the rehearsal of the exact events. It’s like you take two equally skilled F1 car drivers and put them on a course to race but one has already made 500 laps on this course and the other has never seen the course in its current layout (race tracks are configurable). The guy who knows the whole thing inside and out is going to do better because he is better practiced.
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sticks and stones may break my bones,
but quetimes while we wait for another tank hurt me.