If all you’re concerned with is DPS, then you are correct. The discussion went this way because the poster I originally responded to ascribed to the people with lower iLvls a lack of understanding of the fights and a desire simply to be carried.
I haven’t said that any of this was equal to racism.
What I did was illustrate a real-world situation where making broad generalizations about someone based on a single axis of knowledge is bigotry and that doing the same here is also bigotry.
I know one thing about you. Forget what it is. I know one thing about you from that one thing I’m going to make broad generalizations about how well you learn, how hard you’ll work, how much you know, and how capable you are and based on that one thing I choose to exclude you.
If a person only has 400 ilvl, for example, they is a greater chance that they are not familiar with mythic raiding mechanics. And have a lack of understanding of the fights.
There is a greater chance that a person with 415 ilvl does.
And that’s fine if you wish to exclude me in that scenario. The difference is I can then just turn around and make my own group which solves that problem. And if I decide to not invite someone to my group it’s based on information that the ilvl is too low, the raider io in this and previous seasons are low and they don’t have AOTC and haven’t cleared any of the bosses. This isn’t based on ignorance, it’s based on what information the game provides me about your character. And since you’re a random player that I will never see again through the Group Finder, I’m gonna be more cutthroat about it. I’d be far more lenient if it was realm only, but since groups have become fickle, I can’t risk multiple wipes because that’ll mean a quick end to the run.
Now, racism and the decision to exclude me comes from hate and pure ignorance.
Well, do I hate casuals? Nope.
Am I making 100% judgement call on something that doesn’t matter? Nope.
So it’s not the same right off the bat. You need a better analogy because the one you have is not only wrong but pretty offensive when trying to compare a situation of you not getting invited to a group to being excluded due to racism.
work a full time job, have a social life + SO, still managed a half decent ranking in BOD+Crucible, that excuse/reasoning is continuously proven wrong and used as an excuse
Yeah bullying is out of hand and has been for a long time.
And while another thread describes a socially anxious casual being bullied in his guild I frequently see crabs in a pot bullying on the forums of players engaging in higher end content by those who are capable of doing the same but just aren’t.
it’s that whole “if I can’t climb out of this tank I can at least pull you down when you get close to the top” mentality.
When we’re talking about pugging in a video game making broad assumptions is the only way to go, as we don’t have time to sit down and talk to every single pug that applies. The fast way is to look at the numbers the game gives us and make a quick assessment that way.
They’ve certainly not helped matters along by sinking almost all of their time and effort exclusively into raids, esports, and timed runs. It’s less and less of an RPG every patch.
And if you can’t sit in our diner you can go sit in someone else’s diner.
If you’re doing this much research before you deny access then you’re not simply rejecting someone based on iLvl and this whole discussion is moot.
The analogy I gave, it’s more like having actually done a background check on someone and THEN refusing to hire them, not just refusing to hire them because of their race/skin color/ethnicity/religious belief/whatnot.
I’ve no problem with that at all.
I know some otherwise perfectly nice people who are racist as heck and are so out of devoutly held religious belief. I went to Jr. High with some of them back in the day. It’s easy to demonize these poor deluded fools, but to claim that, universally, they’re motivated by hate and ignorance is just a foolish as much of what else you’ve said here today.
No. The analogy is perfect.
It’s an analogy. As with all analogies it breaks down taken too far, which you’re doing.
This wasn’t equating your exclusion originally reported as by iLvl alone, later expanded to a more reasonable background check on the rejectees, with racism.
It was using a deliberately absurd analogy to point out how ridiculous it is to reject anyone for anything based on a single data point.
There’s a long, long tradition of absurdism in debate in English not the least infamous of which is Jonathan Swift’s 1729 treatise on how to deal with the Irish underclass.
I agree to an extent. There are definitely players who ask for people way over-qualified for certain content simply because they want to get it done efficiently. But in theory, isn’t that logical? To prefer having people so qualified for the job, there is no margin of error?
It’s non-inclusive and unfair to people who actually need to do that content, sure. However, it’s always been this way and I don’t think it will ever change. They are in their own crowd of players, and they’re always going to weed out the unqualified for their standards. That’s just how it is.
To be fair most people dont bother trying to bait the charge anymore…
Also, it picks a DPS, not the tank.
As a tank, i have to deal with that boss casting either charge or indegestion on his first timer. If he picks indegestion, and i pre-kite i can completely avoid the damage while being able to save my heroic leap for tantrum soaks.
Its RNG if the first cast will be charge or indegestion, and as i need to pre-kite in a direction away from the group, sometimes the boss will move.
Completely avoiding indegestion damage while saving mobility for tantrum is worth the 1 or 2 seconds it takes to soak slightly more spaced out grubs from the charge.
Anyways, just wanted to point out how elitism is all a matter of perspective. Here you are being an elitist thinking “crap tank dont know to tank on edge” while tank is thinking “bad mage isnt baiting charge”