Is dispelling World Buffs now bannable?

[Chucktaurus-fairbanks]

@Majinbruh-netherwind

We can all argue but look who is banned for, idk, griefing?

If you actually watched the clip from the stream, the streamer even says that just dispelling is not an actionable offense.

He was banned because the streamer and the GM believed that the streamer was specifically targeted. He was banned for targeted harassment of a specific individual.

Which is why I question how they even know he specifically set out to target the streamer. I don’t know how they’d know that.

But simply dispelling people to remove their world buffs is not griefing. It’s PvP. Plain and simple. Upsetting sensitive nerds it not griefing.

[Melphina-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Pillowfort-barthilas

Ok but this GM just said that what the priest did was a bannable offense, so until Blizzard acknowledges this and/or overrules the GM in chat, I’m going to consider it a bannable offense.

Blizzard has also said its GMs would not take action against people camping lowbies and killing quest NPCs early on. If the GM did something against policy he should be in trouble. Just because one GM has done something does not equate to policy change.

[Pillowfort-barthilas]

@Valinia-netherwind

Neither the streamer or the GM could prove it was intentionally targeted against said streamer.

I agree the streamer couldn’t, but how do you know the GM couldn’t? Can you prove that either?

@Valinia-netherwind

Also he did not grief. Griefing requires chronical behaviour against said person. This was a one time dispel. And even if he dispelled said streamer beforehand, to constitute griefing the priest would have to actively stalk the streamer constantly for a long time to even consider that being griefing.

You don’t really get to decide that, Blizzard does. Unless his suspension gets overturned, then Blizzard has made their stance clear.

[Abigor-skywall]

Yes it is. What part of “PLAYER VS PLAYER” is confusing? Anything you choose to add to that definition is irrelevant. I can dispel you and walk away. You can sap me or cast a single dot on me and ride off. You can hit me once or twice and leave. There are no requirements that it has to be a full fight.

[Diususus-sargeras]

How is losing your wbuffs runining a person experience? YOU STILL CAN CLEAR THE RAID WITH NO BUFFS.

[Farnese-herod]

All streamers should be banned. They’re a plague.

[Valinia-netherwind]

@Pillowfort-barthilas

I agree the streamer couldn’t, but how do you know the GM couldn’t? Can you prove that either?

The GM acted based on the stream. The streamer did not report the incident via their ingame system, but rather explained to the GM what happened in his stream and the GM took it for face value. Also how do you prove he actively targeted the streamer? The guy could literally alt tab and the orc was just the first person that came in his sights.

Edit: And again, even if it was intentional. It happened one time, so that still does not mean its griefing, because it was just one time.

@Pillowfort-barthilas

You don’t really get to decide that, Blizzard does. Unless his suspension gets overturned, then Blizzard has made their stance clear.

Im just basing what I said on the ToS by Blizzard and then base my assessment of the situation based on the definition of the word griefing. Since this isn’t a real science but rather just internet lingo, Wikipedia’s definition of “griefing” certainly seems to hold some weight. And a onetime action can not be griefing. If i kill a random streamer in STV one time because i saw him in camp and he then says: well thats stream sniping… should I get banned to for 6 months? Or should you if you killed said lowbie or dispelled someone?

[Delmok-mankrik]

I’m cool with rez dispelling being bannable. It’s not PvP.

[Pillowfort-barthilas]

@Melphina-bloodsail-buccaneers

Blizzard has also said its GMs would not take action against people camping lowbies and killing quest NPCs early on.

Citation?

@Melphina-bloodsail-buccaneers

If the GM did something against policy he should be in trouble.

Agreed.

@Melphina-bloodsail-buccaneers

Just because one GM has done something does not equate to policy change.

It is my understanding that Blizzard has always been vague when it came to these types of policies. So I would love to see the policy that you’re referencing to clear things up.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Being dispelled is far less than being killed in combat. Anyone who doesn’t want to be dispelled shouldn’t be on a PvP server. Deal with it or transfer off.

[Pillowfort-barthilas]

@Valinia-netherwind

The GM acted based on the stream. The streamer did not report the incident via their ingame system, but rather explained to the GM what happened in his stream and the GM took it for face value. Also how do you prove he actively targeted the streamer? The guy could literally alt tab and the orc was just the first person that came in his sights.

We’re derailing here, I don’t think the STREAMER did anything wrong, the GM, probably did a number of things wrong. Like not going through the proper channels, etc. Regardless, if GMs see people violating rules on a stream, I consider it a positive that they go ahead and ban those people. That is the only stance I was trying to take.

I don’t know if the GM banned it based off of just the streamer’s word or not, none of us can really know that except for Blizzard. Maybe it only took 5 minutes for the GM to see that the guy had a targetting macro, who knows.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Pillowfort-barthilas

Citation?

PvP Harassment

[Pillowfort-barthilas]

Yes, I agree that the guy shouldn’t have been banned then. Assuming that the GM just banned the guy for this one incident, that is.

[Rathia-deviate-delight]

I found this to be extremely troubling for a few reasons:

1.) It smacks of open/public streamer priviledge.

I understand streamers do get griefed and sniped which is not fun and in some cases against ToS.

Not all instances where something bad/inconvenient happens to a streamer consistute griefing. Claiming that you’ve been stream sniped/repeatedly griefed would require observing a pattern of behavior over a protracted period.

Getting killed in BRM or dispelled in BRM (the major hot spot on most servers) is very different than having specific players follow you around the open world for days/weeks/months stalking and killing you.

There are probably hundreds of people who frustrated they get killed repeatedly in PVP, or dispelled etc.

Where are the ‘resolutions’ for those people who feel they’ve been wronged? Have they (actually) been wronged? If your on a PVP server, the possibility of being killed repeatedly, or dispelled repeatedly are things a player accepts when they agree to play on that server.

Asmongold realized part way through Classic that due to his high visibility on the server…a PVE server was probably the best choice for a player of his position and mindset.

1B.). Streamers need to be more careful about how they use their clout. This was a really dumb streamer move and it’s going to hurt people’s perception of the streaming community. It’s already a community thats viewed as being entitled and disruptive to normal players (who don’t monetize their gameplay / make it a job).

I think streamers can be a force for good in this game, but this type of behavior damages the reputation of this streamer and people’s perceptions of streamers as a group.

2.) The speed of the ban is a problem. The manner in which the ban was handed out (publicly on a stream) is a problem.

Are 6 month bans something cavalierly handed out now? This looks like a purely retaliatory ban. The gravity of this is a big deal…it damages people’s faith that GMs review situations carefully/seriously and don’t harbor biases between players…which brings us to…

3.) The GM in question appears to have been in the streamers chat when it happened and responded to a request to ban another player. It’s not a problem to have GMs sitting in streamer chats. It is a problem to have GMs publicly identify themselves as GMs…and to have them respond to in-game/moderation requests via a stream.

Those types of requests need to be handled in-game through the game’s systems. It certainly appears Blizzard needs more GMs so that tickets and requests for help can be handled in a more reasonable fashion (quicker and with greater attention to detail).

I was floored to see the GM given a free sub. It’s not that I believe there was montary incentive involved here…that’s not my impression. It is a moral conflict/hazard however.

The streamer is putting the GM on blast/in an even worse situation basically giving him a gift/token of appreciation that has monetary value. I do t think the streamer realized how bad an idea that was at the time. He does this publicly too! It’s such bad optics for both the streamer and the GM. This is done right after the GM has done something for the streamer at the streamer’s request.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

The issue becomes with how brazen then streamer was in requesting a targeted ban…and how swiftly the request was answered. This is almost certainly not the first time he has done this…just the first time he’s done it on camera.

[Evilbadguy-malganis (Evilbadguy)]

The streamer should be banned for real life money trading as he awarded a sub that costs real money to the corrupt GM for an in-game service that shouldn’t even be possible. Ban the streamer and fire the GM.

[Dominaation-fairbanks]

It actually is PvP unfortunately, But the ToS seems very subjective. I may be PvP but is it also harassing a player? This what blizz needs to decide

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Blizzard is actually very explicit on whether this is harassment or not. Scroll up just a bit to look at the “PvP Harassment” link i dropped.

Summarized it says “if this happens on a PvP server its fine. If you don’t like it…go to a PvE server.”

[Bozho-frostmourne]

Is there evidence on the ban?

[Revir-herod]

Part of me is like good a guy that spends his time griefing people finally got banned because he got caught doing it on a stream.

Part of me is like streamer privilege, this should not be.

So I am not going to care ether way. If you want me to be outraged that a clown got banned for dispel griefing, it wont happen.
If you want me to be outraged that a streamer got special treatment, knowing why the ban happened, it wont happen.