Hello, I have 4 alts (monk/dk/rogue/druid) and just started a DH.
With every class, there are enough spells to completely fill the two bottom bars (and still some - I put it in the extended bottom bar on the right).
DH is the first class, where it has so little spells that I don’t even fill the bottom bars. It’s missing at least 5-7 spells compared to other classes.
What happened? Is blizzard going to finish them off later on?
Current DH players, do you not get really bored with so little to do?
The DPS is pretty good on every ability and considering how mobile the class is, I feel like that’s more a balancing thing. While it is odd going from my druid to my DH, personally I don’t see playing DH as much different from old platforming games I’d play.
I wouldn’t be against more abilities being added, but I wouldn’t say it’s boring or “incomplete” because the time I would have spent pushing different buttons on my druid is spent strategically moving around so I can use my attacks more efficiently. That provides a different but enjoyable experience to me.
DH feels really complete to me. Aside from the total number of buttons, what do you think is missing? Lots of folks claim DH has way too much utility as it is.
I don’t get bored playing my DH because of the mobility. There isn’t another class that plays remotely like it.
I’m not sure what you mean by “special position”, but when I’m out on the world, I tend to kite mobs around to the best position for me to blast them all at once with my eyebeams and mop up with any other AoE. I’ve cleared areas pretty quickly that way and it’s pretty satisfying.
But I feel like that might be standard among melee classes/specs (I’ve only played feral besides DH wrt melee so don’t quote me on that). What more stands out to me would be times that things aren’t easy and such. Having to keep track of where my soul fragments landed and deciding when to start moving towards them is something I have to monitor in harder fights. And there were times I had to make a hasty retreat because I’m about to be overwhelmed. I’ve had to use glide and fel rush on multiple occasions to get away from a crowd before cutting down any weakened ones that managed to keep up to recover.
The short version of this is, sometimes we are required to get a bit creative with how we zip around depending on situation. This is a huge contrast from my boomie where I mostly stay in one place and only move when I absolutely have to. And boomie is a lot less forgiving when you get overwhelmed because not only are you at a bad DPS disadvantage but you also can’t escape easily.
Meanwhile, on DH, if I can’t cut my way out of a mess, I can usually zip my way out at least. Even more so if there’s a cliff to bail from. I’ve died a LOT less on my DH than I did on my druid not just because of the DPS but also because I can escape pretty easily. There’s a bit of a thrill to being able to escape danger in addition to facing it head on.
Also, just being able to parkour your way across some zones is fun. It’s just a wildly different experience that reminds me a bit of my days playing Spyro, so I enjoy it. As I said, I would love to see more variety added at some point, but I don’t mind things as they are now.
And besides, getting more variety would mean we’re either getting weaker abilities that people won’t want to use or the existing abilities would be getting a nerf. I don’t think anyone’s going to like that. So I think things are fine for now.
A common misconception is that fewer buttons = less to do, but that’s really not the case with DH’s. It’s also not the case that more buttons = a more involved spec/class. I think you should move away from your assumption about the amount of buttons to press. Personally, I’d take a class or spec that functions properly and is fun to play even if it means fewer buttons rather than a spec that feels awful to play but has tons of buttons (like feral druids, imo).
Looking at the class, or each spec, what do you feel is lacking that makes you think demon hunters are incomplete?
Healer hybrids always have more buttons because of the healing spells present even in DPS spec.
And I’ll never tire of dissuading people of the notion that more buttons = better gameplay. The spec with the most rotational buttons in the game right now is Affliction, with 8 primary rotational buttons in their dominant spec (Agony, Corruption, Siphon Life, Unstable Affliction, Phantom Singularity, Haunt, Deathbolt, Shadowbolt). The warlock community is relatively unanimous that Affliction is by far the least interesting and most boring of the 3 warlock specs.
On the other side is Fire, with 4 primary rotational buttons in the dominant spec (Fireball, Fire Blast, Pyroblast, Meteor, with Fireball swapped for Scorch <35%). And yet it has one of the more interesting and dynamic rotations. Arcane has even fewer, having only 3 (Arcane Blast, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage), and yet has even deeper gameplay, in terms of moment-to-moment decision making, than Fire.
Havoc’s overall rotation feels very well fleshed out, especially with the dominant Demonic/First Blood build. It flows well, it has natural high points, and has no period where you feel like you’re not doing anything useful (many other specs have such periods, some fairly extensive). They also possess significant utility currently, some would say too much.
You also have to keep in mind how many of the buttons on other classes are just to support some innate mechanic (example, all of the pet utility abilities for hunters, or the stealth abilities for rogues) or overlap significantly (warlocks have Banish + Fear + Enslave, all variants of CC that work on different things).
The other part that leads to fewer buttons for Havoc is that it adopts several of the designs that have been added to the game since inception, that other classes haven’t gained due to legacy or flavor. For example, Havoc has the Feral-like mechanic of having its primary abilities transform automatically when in Meta form, rather than having different abilities (like how Pounce was merged into Rake and Ravage was merged into Shred, with the effects automatically active in stealth). Havoc has passive self-healing instead of the active effects like Death Strike.
Havoc also lacks separate AoE abilities, because nearly all of our single-target abilities also deal AoE damage (which fits the flashy and aggressive flavor of the spec and class). Our AoE rotation is identical to our single-target rotation, which also arguably makes that AoE rotation more interesting than, say, spamming Howling Blast, Swipe+Thrash, or Tiger Palm + Spinning Crane Kick.
TL;DR: more buttons != better gameplay. Don’t judge the class based on how many slots on the bar are filled, judge it by how it feels to play. And speaking as someone that has 8 120’s (and the other 4 at 110), Havoc is easily one of the most fun specs in this expansion so far.
As others have said, having “more buttons” does not equate to being uninteresting or less complex. Level up some more, get into some Mythic +'s and raids and you will see for yourself. I personally have 21 key binds and I use them. I have many friends that have recently leveled a DH and initially thought it was super boring/basic and extremely OP. Well at lower levels, yes it can be. Once they get into raids and mythics, they find it to be very different and more challenging than previously thought. Playing Havoc well in end game scenarios comes down to timing, fury management, and placement. These are the things you really focus on once you get to max level, get gear, get in some raids and higher keys. If you are playing properly, you will never have nothing to do.
I like the lesser amount of buttons mainly because I’m learning how to tank. Less worry for me about using the wrong cooldown between similar spells or not using a spell and wondering if that means I’m doing something wrong because I haven’t used it.
Each spell feels more like its own thing instead of a slightly different copy of the spell next to it.
Plus I can use the extra space for food, toys, quest items, etc without creating too many bars
Most classes also have any aoe rotation and a single target rotation, with totally different buttons for each. Dh, though, is all cleave and the rotation doesn’t change (for demonic at least).
So our rotations use the same moves and the same buttons, lowering the amount on the bar.
The problem isn’t DHs being unfinished, it’s other classes being less well-made. DHS feel very complete and well-balanced with far fewer abilities than most classes have. (Even Monks, introduced AFTER the Great Pruning, continue to lose abilities.) DHs feel good, although we felt better at one point or another, in Legion. Plus with different talents, you can add or remove buttons to your rotation.
The problem is other classes, and they’ve been reduced, reused, and recycled, to try to bring them into line with the new design philosophy, which DHs were born into.
In theory, this was supposed to be what the Great Pruning was about. Except they kept removing useful or flavorful buttons, like Demonic Gateway, Ember Tap, and Scare Beast, and retaining still useless ones (like Feed Pet didn’t die until Legion, iirc, and Beast Lore is still around instead of it simply being freakin baseline)
All DH’s look at is the meters, many people like the 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,1,1,1,3,2,2,2,2 button smashing. Once you take away the dps you’ll start hearing how boring it is. Right now they do great aoe and good single target with little effort or switching talents.
I think any DPS class would be boring if you kill the DPS. Or alternately just plain frustrating if there’s a lot of buttons to press and monitor for little payoff.
I don’t know if there’s any other way to play melee besides looking at meters? Of course the only other melee I’ve played as is feral druid, but come on.
Personally I find playing DH a lot more satisfying than feral not just because of the DPS but also because of how lively the playstyle is. The best way to play DH is to play proactively and move around strategically to optimize your damage output in addition to reducing damage taken.
There’s the brute force way of playing DH and there’s the actual fun way.
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