This is my view as well.
The only thing more difficult in classic compared to retail is leveling. But I’m not so sure I’d call it more difficult as opposed to different and more time-consuming. Because there’s no roadblock that completely stops you from leveling.
If you can’t understand why having the chance of a failure state in a video game is important… Then I’m not surprised why you don’t “get it.”
You can?
I’ve easily killed everything I’ve fought.
The only difficult part was killing something like 3 levels higher than me and having to use my racial ability.
Rag was always easy though. Classic is much harder in terms of leveling and fighting style, but retail top tier content can be very challenging as well. But in retail you have an uber pruned toolkit so it’s more just getting into good groups.
Yes. It is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life lol. And by reading 99.9% of the spammed classic threads, it seems to be most difficult thing most of the others have ever done in their lives also.
Ask Ragnaros and Onyxia.
In terms of questing and raw numbers where you can get killed by straight up melee hits? Yes.
In terms of mechanics, complexity, and coordination needed for success, no, Classic doesn’t hold a kobald’s candle to retail encounters or throughput requirements.
But it is you who feels the need to come to the retail forum for the sole purpose of trolling or to have their choices validated.
Difficulty is subjective-- Personally, making it take longer doesn’t mean it’s harder for me to do. Just means, it takes longer. Simple as that.
They differ in different areas. It’s easier to leeroy into a group of mobs and not die horribly in BFA, but the raid fights are more complex. Classic has more stuff you have to put time and effort into, like professions, BFA has mythic+. Classic has a clear progression path, BFA is a slot machine.
I’d say Classic is more fun for sure, but both have their difficulties.
when people dedicate themselves to do something nothing is hard, the problem with retail is that not enough is dedicated enough to do anything but it’s not entirely their fault because the game is boring
but but you are not method…you are joe normal and you will never see rag in 2 months lol
there is a decent guild running mc currently on twitch, so take your guilds, subtract 1000000 brain cells, grab your 55 level players, multiply that by im an idiot, and that equals your guild sees rag die in 2 months from today, thanks.
I’d love to see half the people mentioning the quick rag kill feat even attempt to get to him right now.
It depends. High end raiding? No, most likely not. It’s hard to say though because you have to factor in that these hardcore private servers folks have literally had years to prep & practice for this. I don’t think there’s a single raid in the history of WoW that wouldn’t get demolished if dedicated raid teams had that long to work on the fights.
Classic is just different from retail and is difficult in its own, separate way.
3 wipes so rar of Domo for a true good guild, still going on on twitch.
domo-3 these guys-0 they were going for server first btw.
method, progression, apes > normal idiots always
Some of these guilds, and players, have been playing past expansions for quite some time. Many have leveled 1-60 numerous times over the past 15 years.
Mixed bag.
MC was always going to be a poor metric. It was never an especially hard raid to begin with, so much as it took some very specific gear people weren’t looking out for early on (itself bypassed on these kills by a world buff that only works well if you quickly oneshot the place and was typically used for farm runs instead of progression – and even that wasn’t enough back in the day), nobody knew how to herd 40 cats, Rag wasn’t summonable for the first month at all (not just the rep, but you had to farm Executus for some 4 quest drops that don’t exist anymore), even once you summoned him his script was bugged to be unkillable for quite a while after (submerge phase never ended), attempts were limited because his summon only lasted so long, and we’re running talent trees and drop tables from a vanilla patch that post-dates the raid by two years (those greens they walked in with weren’t arbitrary, they were specific secondaries that were fantastically rare before AQ or so and more powerful than most of MC’s drop table). Attrition fights didn’t get especially demanding until BWL, and mechanics didn’t get at all complicated until AQ. MC in general was an anomaly in a lot of ways, even before you factor in “no-name” guilds who happen to have been practicing this exact speedrun together for the better part of 5 years on private servers.
For the record, don’t expect BWL to be last much longer. The main gates there were that Chromaggus was broken, and farming Onyxia cloaks for the whole raid to survive Nef’s nukes – something that took several months for a whole raid, but BWL is two whole release phases away. We’re going to have to wait until AQ and Naxx to really see much that approaches even the scale of apples and oranges.
And we’re never going to get apples to apples. Comparing classic raids in general to retail Mythic is going to be a mistake. Vanilla raid end bosses were attrition and gear checks tuned around farming the place for gear for several weeks, and often artificially gated by bugs. Current Mythic bosses and DPS rotations are mechanically far more complex, but also designed to be killed within a couple weeks of release while the world first race hype is still fresh. They’re literally not tuned around testing – the numbers are blindly scaled-up spitballs by people who aren’t actually capable of killing them in any level of gear (and don’t even appear to be very proficient at understanding the mechanics and itemization they created), then every couple days they nerf the current brick wall until someone makes the kill.
Now, as far as everything else? The difficulty seen by the average non-raider is utterly beyond retail.
Leveling, classic is harder, full stop. The resource starvation in early leveling is completely unheard of in retail, and even once your spellbook is full and your mana pool is beefier the overworld still demands proficient field control just to stay alive. Plus, this is the first time a lot of retail folks have ever seen a mob higher level than themselves, which carries sharply increasing penalties to hit chance, damage done, damage taken, and even aggro radius. Very few elites are soloable by very few classes, and it takes a lot of kiting to do it.
5-mans? Classic is harder again, by a longshot. Tank threat in classic is a shadow of what people are used to (and can miss), and failing to focus fire and CC properly means someone – potentially the healer – is getting mauled. Mob damage output in retail is completely trivial until mid-level Mythic keys, and most of it is preventable casts. Classic mobs hit like trucks just with their autoattacks. Also almost anything humanoid flees at low health, much faster than the few retail mobs that do the same. You have to get pretty high into M+ to see anything anywhere near as threatening as LBRS or Strat.
The endgame definitely isn’t. I mean really look at classic objectively. A mage can top DPS in a raid by spamming literally ONE spell. It’s just frostbolt frostbolt frostbolt. There is literally nothing else to it. Most classes have rotations that are just as easy. It’s the definition of no skill gameplay. It takes considerably more skill to play the game at a high level in retail. Classic endgame is for scrubs.
Priest can go oom, bubble on Cooldown, health dropping
Nobody has full level appropriate gear, its just how close you are.
The fire immunity mob existed in vanilla it used to be standard practice for vael. But far too much hassle when mc was current content.