I’ve seen plenty of players that were 2200-2400 that were terrible on harder Affixes. Usually DPS players.
3/4 DPS players don’t know mechanics on every trash pull or boss still.
I’ve also never said they couldn’t do an 8. Learning to read would help you there. Being 858 on hard weeks means they probably don’t participate. Go look at seasons end and you will see a ton of really high rated DPS that only play easy weeks.
Actually, after reading your post I’m not sure you comprehended what I said at all. Please read again and understand it and then get back to me.
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No. I understood your post completely. You’re complaining that people were able to push higher keys on ‘easy’ weeks. That’s not their fault, that’s blizzard’s fault for doing a bad job balancing affixes. Raider io already lets you look up character’s dungeons completed on various affixes, as does bestkeystone… so I’m not sure what your complaint is. You get an affix combo like once, maybe two times a season. What does their score on a week say about their skill other than they might not have even played that week.
You can also sort best runs by affix combo on the website. So instead of being lazy, maybe look up a player instead of complaining about these mythical 2600 io players that supposedly can’t handle ‘hard’ affixes
This would be pretty cool, I think.
Imagine using overall score to evaluate people and not copying their IO url and checking their completion history for the dungeon in question.
I sure can’t
I agree. Timing a 15 with Fort/Teeming/Explosive should give more points than timing a 15 with Tyr/Teeming/Volcanic
in theory yes
in practice it introduces subjectivity in a system that much of the playerbase already considers elitist and subjective
in it’s current state the M+ score system is relatively objective because it does not differentiate based on affix combinations or the dungeon
if that design changes then questions will come up as to the magnitude of score differences required between dungeons or affixes, for example how much more should an average KR run give compared to an average FH run ?
this whole idea is ripe for abuse
That’s not what objectivity is.
Let’s look at it slightly further. If less people are running Explosive, and “overall score” took that into account, an “overall score” that’s lower for Explosive is more impressive. Ranking 124th/25000 vs Ranking 12th/250. As long as the system itself does not make a determination of “difficulty”, it remains objective. That could mean that a “score” of 700 on Explosive week is more impressive than a “score” of 1000 on Skittish week, etc., but as long as the system isn’t imposing anything, it remains objective.
What the OP proposed according to his own words is that you wouldn’t have “an average KR run vs an average FH run”, because the dungeon itself wouldn’t matter. It’s only “an average Teeming + Fortified run”.
These are the sorts of flaws and debates one gets into when attempting to reduce a complex situation into ONE NUMBER SCORE. I do find it interesting that people keep coming back to that idea of ONE NUMBER SCORE, and that not having that kind of inherently flawed stupidity isn’t considered an option.
Well dungeon unfortunately does matter and often synergizes with certain affixes or affix combinations to a super maximum pain degree, such as grievous + tyrannical KR in season 2 (grievous should only exist with fortified in season 3).
So if we’re going to start calculating IO based on affixes then we better start calculating it based on dungeon too. That means that we then have to start assigning numerical differences for what’s considered an ‘easy’ affix or dungeon relative to what are considered the hard ones. Then it gets further convoluted by painful dungeon + affix combinations together (like the one I mentioned above). Again this quickly spirals into abuse and extreme subjectivity.
You can always just check their individual completions to get a decent idea. 1100 with a page full of 2 and 3 star runs or at least everything on time is way better than one with half a dozen failed +10s as their best runs
I think IO score should just be calculated on week over week ranking. It takes all factors into consideration, holiday, weather, affixes, etc.
Just be (your position)/all significant positions * 100. Boom.
Holy crap you guys are really over thinking this
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Probably, but I’m a problem solver and the “problem” was how to weight affix combinations into the score to make the composite more accurate.
IDK that’s really a problem, but i think my suggestion eliminates all factors, real or imagined.
Not really.
Right now let’s say each dungeon is roughly 10 * x * level ish, so doing a Shrine-9 is giving roughly 90. That’s regardless of whether the affix combination is Teeming-Quaking or Bolstering-Explosive. If the UI displays the max level at which every component was done, you could later on see that the player has done a 9-Explosive, so when you’re looking for a person for ML who has done 8-ML, 9-Explosive, AND 9-Teeming (all with different other dungeons and affixes), the fact that they haven’t done that exact combo probably doesn’t matter since they should be reasonably aware of how those combinations will work in that dungeon run.
If you did want to reduce it down to one number (and I cannot stress just how stupid that kind of system is once again - bear in mind this is a very half-hearted suggestion because of how stupid I think this is), then you could do something like (dungeon * 10 * level) + (affix1 * 10 * level) + (affix2 * 10 * level). I believe IO itself is a bit more complicated overall, but I’ll assuming that’s roughly where it’s at.
In that case, doing a 9-Bolst-Explosive would assign 90 to Shrine, 90 to Bursting, and 90 to Explosive - for a total of 270 against that specific combo. The 9-Explosive would carry over to Motherlode next time Explosive comes around, so a previous 8-Motherlode (let’s say with Raging), following a 7-Teeming (let’s say it was KR with Quaking) would cause you to evaluate roughly to 240 for the later week at ML-Teem-Explosive. If it’s for Siege of Boralus, and that player has never done Siege, that would drop to 160, which is pretty arbitrary, but that’s at least somewhat more reflective of overall experience than grading a person who’s completed a 9-Explosive before at 0. The person starting the group controls which dungeon they want to run, and the affix rotation is globally available, so all of this can be easily calculated on the fly if required. None of this is imposing an external grading, or claiming that one factor is weighted more than another, so it isn’t subjective.
It would also mean the recommended meta at the start of a season isn’t “SPAM EVERY DUNGEON KNOWN TO MAN ON THE EASIEST WEEK AVAILABLE”.
The hangup seems to be whether you decide “A one-number score needs to be calculated by an addon/website”. And frankly, I cannot stress enough again how trying to reduce things to one number is just daft.
IO should be removed from the game.
Adding even more to it doesn’t make it better it makes it worse.
I have to laugh. The people who thinks X player aren’t good enough because they don’t have that magic number. Are the same people who couldn’t invite themselves starting out because they’d don’t have that number.
They for some reason don’t see the problem here.
That would leave no one in M+. Which is a good thing. It horrible design.
Let’s design something where you have to figure out which trash to skip. The more you skip the better your run goes. Where some classes are totally worthless. Rush, rush, rush. We can’t see the content there is no time.
Why is this good game design on any level is beyond me.
You finish the dungeon you should get your reward. Not. Or we missed it by one second this run sucks.
You finish a +5. You get a token for a +6. +6 to +7 Once you reach you skill cap you’ll not finish one anyway so it’s not like you’ll do a +20 if you can’t do a +20 now.
If Blizzard can look the their system here with so few classes be able to do higher keys and say, “Good job guys. Working as intended.”
I want what Blizzard was smoking when they thought this up.
Blizzard now is designing this crap for Esports. But it’s not like anyone really cares. That’s the sad thing.
Why would anyone watch the same setup in classes group together skipping trash on their way to the boss is odd.
It’s about as boring as it gets.
IO is literally just exposing your experience so that others can see it. Even if they removed the time requirement and completely changed how this form of endgame works, IO would still be a thing. Very few people want to help others learn something if they’ll never see them again. Also, unless trash dropped risidium or BoEs or something, people are going to want to skip trash because that makes the instance go faster.
I understand not liking M+, but it’s just the codification of behavior that has existed since people had to run new recruits through Shadow Labs to kill Murmur to get them attuned to Karazhan. After the first couple of runs, and especially after the gear is no longer an upgrade, it all comes down to clearing it faster with fewer mistakes. M+ is just that, but with a way to measure success.
Maybe they can give each affix a specific weight modifier for each dungeon. For instance, volcanic and raging can have low modifiers for all dungeons since they’re universally easy. Sanguine can have lower modifier in open dungeons like MOTHERLODE while having higher modifier in tight spaces like WM and TD.
The issue is that SOMEONE is going to have to play God and assign these weight modifiers to them and I guarantee you there will be many people upset about them.
Yep and since you’re comparing ML with WM you better be giving me a MUCH higher score contribution for ML if it’s a fortified week
Blizzard will never create a performance system because the majority of paying customers are average at best. If you haven’t learnt by now average people hate it being visible they are average.
I guess I am the odd one here. I love M+ and I love IO. IO gives me an objective measure of my progress through the M+ universe. M+ is a way to play with others without having to have 24 other people. I’m slowly grinding up and enjoying the process. The system is fine for what it’s intended to do. Are there those who use it to push elitest goals? Probably, but I don’t want to play with them anyway.