Flying makes the game more fun. It is not exploitative and I don’t want a mounting revamp. Can we stop asking for this kind of stuff because it adds ZERO to the game and takes money away from real content.
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Do you feel the same about battle pet dungeons?
It already exists, pointless to answer that.
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At no point did I say anything about removing flying, btw.
No, it would demonstrate whether or not you’re consistent.
I have no problem saying that I think Battle Pet Dungeons are a waste of time and I personally don’t think they add anything to the game. That doesn’t mean I want them removed, though.
I’m just trying to get an idea of what you consider ‘content that adds zero to the game’ and that’s why I asked.
Well, that’s Pathfinder… oh, except you have added one other requirement:
I’ll keep saying it till I die, but a MMO does NOT mean " must be designed for group content". Yes, a MMO can have group content, but forcing group content on the playerbase of a shared-world MMO is wrong, and completely misunderstands the reasons millions of people play these games.
Flying used to require time in the form of gold acquisition; now it requires time in the form of gameplay, and I’m totally fine with that, especially since the resulting flying unlock is account-wide. What I’m not fine with is the arbitrary delay for a year or more, long after the content has been played to death.
As for player interactions, no game system should FORCE them. They happen organically (as anyone can see any time they’re in a populated area) and that’s the way it should be. Forcing player interaction just breeds resentment.
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With respect, I don’t really see how leaving players grounded for a period of time forces interactions between players. I’d agree if you said it creates more opportunities for them, which I believe is the intent, but force? I just don’t see that being the case.
I was responding to your suggestion that obtaining flying should involve some sort of “challenge” that requires a group.
It 1000% should not. Not ever.
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Whoa, whoa. I didn’t say anything about a challenge requiring a group. Where’d you get that impression from? If I’ve worded something badly, that needs correcting pronto.
Edit1: Nevermind, I see what caused the confusion. Gimme a minute and I’ll clarify.
Edit2: When I mentioned forcing players to band together, I wasn’t referring to group content – just a general sense of camaraderie between players. With Classic as an example, I’ll explain. If you haven’t played it, a lot of the graveyards that have been added to the game over the years did not exist in Vanilla and subsequently do not exist in Classic. Additionally, soloing through quests is possible, but challenging.
As a result, even though mobs are not multi-tap, it is not uncommon at all when playing Classic for someone to come rushing at your enemy and help you kill it despite not getting any benefit for themselves when doing so. On numerous occasions, I received a clutch life-saving heal, or a tank player running up and taunting something about to kill me.
It’s not required group gameplay that causes this type of action – rather, it’s empathy. When the environment is sufficiently deadly to players, other players will internalize that hardship, remember it, and more easily relate to those experiencing it. That’s what I meant by ‘banding together.’
You mean what’s under here?
What is it that you said again?
I don’t know, it seems like a bunch of convenient things. Being able to jump really high, extra speed, immunity to hazards and falling damage, and levitating and even flying. So since you said it isn’t gameplay, these aren’t gameplay then.
That one i’l give, but isn’t the whole point of mounting is convenience?
If your going to say that, then it has to apply to every game. Not just the games you don’t like.
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Give mounts certain abilities that make sense for them, have flying mounts glide in area’s you can’t fly, have certain mounts be faster, have some jump higher, maybe even a double jump like DH. At the very least it would be more interesting while content is fresh and then at the end of the areas life cycle they can enable flying there with pathfinder.
I think guild wars has something like this but I’ve never played it.
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Your usage of ‘convenience’ is overbroad. If you’re going to consider controls like abilities and player-initiated mobility as the same kind of convenience as fast-travel and unfettered z-axis navigation, I’m not sure you and I are going to have a productive time of this.
Under your understanding of what is and is not a convenience, you’re including things like abilities. To that end, class abilities are just conviences too. I’m not willing to meet you there.
Flying should be purchased at cap for gold.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I personally see and do MUCH MORE content in zones in which I can fly. I am more inclined to explore, complete world quests, and grind rep when I can get to where I need to go quickly.
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Okay, but imagine all of that.
But also mounts had a broader system on top of that.
Or, crazy idea here, but they could also embrace flying again and design zones with it in mind. Then again that might just be crazy talk. Look at BC, Wrath, and Cata, zones that were made with flying in mind, and were amazing zones to be in, honestly, I felt more immersion in a lot of those zones than I have felt in any of the current zones, especially before Pathfinder can be completed.
Why you ask, simple, I can’t fly yet I see other creatures etc… flying around unhindered. I see a gryphon NPC flying around yet my gryphons can’t fly.
Another solution I would be fine with, is Pathfinder part one opening flying in the launch zones, and completable from the get go. If new zones with flying in mind launch later, add a part two for those zones, but don’t gate flying in launch content until halfway through the expansion. It just feels like this current Dev team is being spiteful because they didn’t get their way with being able to remove flying.
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Mounts are more than just convenience. Especially flying mounts. Just the act of flying itself can be a fun activity. If mounts s are nothing but a convenience to you, that’s a you problem. Not a game problem.
I see you completely ignored the first half of my post. You have still to say how flying is a broken mechanic. Or how it negatively affects the game. But ok.
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Lots of words just to say “I’m mad that people can avoid my trying to WPvP them.”
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I’m gonna have to disagree on this one. Skettis and Ogri’la weren’t all that great. All they were was daily quest hubs isolated by a gold gate. And that’s fine, but it’s not functionally much different than paying an NPC to open a portal to a daily hub for you.
Yeah, but none of that has anything to do with earning flying. I mean, I help players out in the world all the time, and that is the sort of thing that happens organically. But flying is something every player wants and (mostly) needs and it can’t be locked behind “challenging” content that may require player cooperation - for one thing, those people who play at 4am, or those players on dead servers, are gonna be pretty screwed.
What Pathfinder asks is that people play the expansion content first before they can fly - and I’m totally fine with that. It’s good, and it’s enough. The time gate on top of it needs to go though.
Now we’ve had Pathfinder, if flying purchased by gold came back the devs would just price it at a ludicrous level to make it take just as long - imagine having to rustle up half a million gold for flying. Now imagine having to do that on every character.
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It would be great if the world were built around flying again. Personally I’d like the return of hazards like we saw in BC to make flying something players had to think about and leverage a risk/reward playstyle in certain areas. At present nothing really involves your mount in any meaningful way.
Can be, but it’s also a system that hasn’t experienced any significant change or improvement since the game launched. Mount Equipment is the only significant addition. Why stop there?
MoP had quest zones at level cap that required flying to get to, something that always seems to be forgotten in these discussions.
So much was gotten right in MoP that’s since been abandoned.
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