Yeah raiding is a time commitment which is the way it has been since the release of wow, I raid at 8pm - 10pm for my own various reasons. Can’t just expect the final content of the game to be handed to you on a platter.
LFR is not the final content of the game 
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The raids they are based on are legit the final content of the game LOL. As I said in an earlier post when all this started, I would be fine if they add LFR to the game as well as celestials but only thing I see that doing is making LFR even worse than it was originally. More afk players, way less dps output in the groups, longer queue times, way more wipes and needing determination stacks. The heroic/normal raiders will more than likely do celestials as a way to get the gear they need for progression over LFR for a chance at a piece from personal loot. Sure some people will do LFR just for the entertainment, but I don’t see that being a large amount of players.
Once again glad you agree LFR is not end game content.
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That’s like what, one or two people? I really wonder if you can remember what you read for more than 10 seconds. Almost none of us that want lfr have posted we’ll quit over it. That’s the main reason blizzard is unlikely to change their mind.
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LFR would be the endgame content. Changing the difficulty doesn’t change what the endgame is. Just changes how hard it is.
Whatever the current raid is, is the endgame for PvE regardless of difficulty. That is until M+ gets introduced whenever that is… then PvE has two seperate endgame. Other then that you have PvPs endgames in Arena and the thing no one apparently does RBGs. With TWW you got Solos endgame of Delves(Though I imagine people would put the brawlers guild or that Legion class challenge thing first)… and well we already have Fashioncraft the ultimate endgame.
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But the mechanics actually do change on the harder difficulties so yes it really is different content.
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Game wise no. Players say otherwise. see anniv, Some experienced raiders say flasks are not needed for MC. Some do.
However when all 6 groups lfm’ing in the lfg say it is, it is. One can go make own group…which will probably fill up slower than the groups up lol.
its not always group starter who is picky. it can be 10+ people on that run that want the raid run in good gear and/or on raid roids.
With heroic+ (celestial) out…it will be needed. Crews say you lack gear for normal. Player asks how do I fix this.
Retail Answer: mythic dungeon. and lfr for a weekly shot gear. hell this fills up at least 2 vault slots for RNG tries on reset day. so +2 chances at least as well.
MoP Answer: celestials till you puke. No lFR. and no vault lol.
See if they want retail officially in classic…I"d say wth, lets #somechange in a vault. some will git their 8 done in MoP soon. may as well give them vault too lol.
No, it is more difficult that is it. It is not different content. Dragon Soul is still Dragon Soul whethere you are doing it on normal or heroics. Siege of Orgrimmar will be Siege of Orgrimmar where you are doing it normal, heroic, or mythic.
In no other game would you be trying to claim that a difficulty shift is a new game…
Took a little bit but here you go and thats just a handful you can find more all over different threads. As for most of this thread its about 10 different people arguing so this is actually more than I thought id find on this thread lol
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Twilight dungeons cater to elite players?
Really?
Can someone other than Aladoris answer for me, are players really this bad now days?
Lets list the reasons someone might be kicked from a Twilight Dungeon
- Tank - If its obvious he has no idea what he’s doing, and has tried and failed several times = Kick.
- Tank - If its a toon with low 300 ilvl gear, or a bunch of PvP gear and keeps getting chunked by bosses = Kick.
- DPS - If they cheese the ilvl req and are really ilvl 300-340 and are doing 7-10k dps on bosses even with the ring buff = Kick.
- DPS - Stacking PvP gear, and obvious they don’t know how the play the class, doing low dps, not avoiding mechanics = Kick.
- Healers - Again, cheesing the ilvl req with gear in bags, or PVP gear on and its obvious they cant keep the group alive = Kick.
- Failing mechanics constantly, not killing slimes (or even trying to), not asking for any advice or help if they are new to Twilights = Kick.
In my experience, the majority of the time, like 95%+, the player is kicked because they obviously skirted the ilvl requirement and they are underperforming to where they should be. If people perform adequately, in most cases they don’t get kicked.
Why should we expect a lower bar or threshold of performance in 5 man content (especially 5 man, but really any content)? Its 5 man content. 5 man. Why do you think its “toxic” to hold people accountable for their performance?
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Apparently not wanting to spend 10 weeks in LFR to get your alts some gear makes us elite players. Well and carry around half of your LFR team that are doing 0 dps or afk.
I’m against LFR in all its forms. I’m in favor of the Twilight and soon to be Celestial dungeon system. I was responding to the dude saying that 5 mans cater to elite players, and my argument is that it doesn’t. Players just expect a level of performance in the 5 mans because enemy health and damage is ramped up with the expectation that people queuing into them have a minimum level of gear.
To be fair we can blame blizzard for not having PvP gear listed as pvp ilvl, as well as making the ilvl requirement for twilights the same as the boost gear gives.
They always have been if we’re being honest
But to say that 5 man dungeons cater to elite players, isn’t that kind of weird? I’ve never heard that sentiment before. I’ve always thought of 5 mans as very accessible content for everyone.
Yeah, its pretty frustrating when someone is decked in 358 pvp gear to skirt the ilvl and they cant do any damage.
I suppose that’s a fail on blizzard’s part to allow players to queue like that in the first place. But again, i guess it’s human nature for people to do the minimum or cheat the system if they think they can skip a few steps.
Good thing there is no stat deficit in PvE from PvP gear in MoP.
Raiding was never a niche activity… i was a raider from 2004 and up till now… if anything the best part of being a raider back in the day was when you had full gear set and ppl inspecting you!!! YOU NEVER GET FELLING BACK! Raiding and Mythic+ is what ppl want because its a challenge. Dont give me that crap with no LFR because they want to be inclusive or what ever. Give us the real deal or dont make it all. Its a big mistake to not have this at launch.
this is because of human nature and being stupid. but its also the same ppl complaining when kicked. i my opinion there are 2 reasons for why ppl do this - they are stupid and they want the shinies. simple enough. either way stop wasting other players time and effort.