Even if the blood elves didn’t join the horde. I don’t see Thrall allowing Zul’jin and the amani into the horde. Zul’jin was angry at the horde long before blood elves become part of it, as he felt that the horde basically abandoned him towards the end of the second war. This was due to Doomhammer moving his forces to siege Lordaeron capital instead of directly attacking Quel’thalas (Doomhammer also had to deal with a rogue Gul’dan as well)
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Thinking about another thread, the Scarlet Crusade collectively. They had a pretty good run in Vanilla, culminating in Balnazar being their leader and also the corrupted Ashbringer bit. They kinda started to fall off in Wrath, when the DK starting area wrecked what should have been the remaining ones, and their Northrend expedition was ultimately led by another dreadlord (Mal’Ganus) who didn’t actually accomplish anything. From Cata onwards though, they just devolved into being those religious nut jobs that everyone hates (especially Voss). At this point, we’ve killed their leadership in Monastery at least 3 times now, and priests had to go mop up their survivors in Northrend for a follower (how and why are they even still there??!!). Capping this all off, there’s still that possible scenario for BfA somewhere too (maybe undead heritage?).
It’s just such a joke of a faction / organization at this point. How do they even keep getting new recruits and leadership? There can’t be that many religious fanatical humans left in Lordaeron at this point.
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Zul’jin was angry, but not to the point of waging a full scale war against the Horde the way he did. Zul’jin doesn’t care about the Horde, he cares about his people and retaking the land that once belonged to them. He’ll do whatever is most likely to lead to that achievement.
There was also (and still is) Revantusk dialogue that talked about Zul’jin’s return in a way that would lead most Horde players to assume he’d return to being Horde aligned when he did arrive, so it was certainly a possibility in Blizzard’s mind when they were writing Vanilla quests.
In a scenario where Zul’jin escapes his prison and the Blood Elves either remain neutral or join the Alliance there isn’t much of a reason for Zul’jin not to reform ties to the Horde. It would help him accomplish his goals and Thrall is a different warchief from Doomhammer. There’s also not many reasons for Thrall to not invite Zul’jin in given the Amani fit the “struggling to survive in a world that sees them as monsters” criteria quite well and it would solidify the Horde’s hold over the northern Eastern Kingdoms.
Zul’jin was on the table right up until Blood Elves were added to the roster. You can maybe speculate scenarios in which Zul’jin would still refuse but it seems pretty clear to me there were seeds planted for him to return as a Horde hero. Blizzard just decided not to use them and now the entire Revantusk tribe is in an awkward position where they seem unaware Zul’jin is dead.
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i remember how they killed most of their members kinda randomly.
like… abbendis, rip.
and what happened to that group with malganis?
The group with Mal’Ganis in Icecrown wind up being daily quest fodder for the Ebon Blade. You unmask Mal’Ganis and he leaves through a portal. Nothing else happens in that area from that point on. It’s kinda amazing too in it’s own way - the Ebon Blade’s wiping them out pretty much out of spite at this point in time. They’re not trying to capture the little harbor for any strategic reason, and the Scarlets certainly aren’t making any meaningful gains against the Scourge in that zone. So, it’s purely the Ebon Blade wiping them out just because they can.
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OMG! Sounds like what is happening with Tyrande too!
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Is character butchering considered as progression?
If yes, then I present you the last warchief of the horde. Lady Sylvanas windrunner
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She’s even dabbling in some sort of forbidden power that changes eye color!
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Racism is basically favoritism. Saying one group of people is better than the rest. We all are showing favoritism and insulting others. THIS is where we are all wrong.
Kael’thas… he was butchered so much that turned him into a joke and a meme…
and in recent years… Sylvanas, they simple did not know what to do with her and keep forcing her into everyone’s plan in azeroth…
I kinda think you have the Zul’jin thing backward. They didn’t make him a villain so that Blood Elves could join the Horde–they were going to make Blood Elves join the Horde no matter what. Probably then they realized that this would make Zul’jin angry, and they all shouted “TROLL RAID!”
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I am quite annoyed that they used the night warrior like they did, we know from a good war novella that the Horde was messing their pants in fear of either Malfurion and Tyrande being present at the war of thorns.
So Tyrande returning to darkshore even with out becoming the night warrior is still a force to be reckoned with. Night warrior just feel like rule of cool.
Also a very missed opportunity to have her present at Nazjatar to confront Azshara. Especially if 8.1 was supposed to have a soft conclusion that the Night elves were “victorious”
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Anduin had no progression at all.
He was always goody two shoes know it all always right mary sue Saint - he’s still is
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The Horde. Also, Jaina.
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Thrall hated the Amani even in WC3 though. He couldn’t believe they were ever allowed in the Horde. Also, Sylvanas was so disgusted by their presence that she went out of her way to slaughter them all, not even wanting to use them as mind-controlled cannon fodder. It’s a bit ironic but Thrall really did seem to see them as monsters, to say nothing of how much venom and hatred the eastern Horde’s leader had for them.
I won’t deny that the blood elves joining the Horde was the final nail in the coffin of “potential Horde hero Zul’jin” - not to mention the slightly forced retcon of the Amani being the Darkspear’s mortal enemies in the same expansion - but the bad blood and mutual disdain between the Amani and the Horde was there long before that happened.
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My take:
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Kael’thas- obvious reasons.
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90% of all troll characters- they are basically fodder who are allowed one mistake if they are allowed any.
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Jaina- she goes bipolar at the drop of a hat, or a new writer’s take. Also she’s basically a walking Deus Ex Human Potential plot device.
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Tyrande- She’s only allowed out of a temple solely to make some dumb mistake for the Horde to capitalize on or to prove a Wrynn correct. She’s my favorite go to character to showcase Blizzard’s writing bias.
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Anduin- he’s kept sheltered for any real character development just to maintain his moral purity.
Troll pick: Maiev- She’s purposely avoided to shield mortal eyes from her perfection as a living weapon.
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the point is it was rather minor and not anything that couldnt have been patched up, especially with the way wow of all games handles its horde. there was basis for amani to return to the horde. blood elves put the nail in the coffin.
my darkspear still yells FOR ZUL’JIN!!! when he charges despite the non sensical supposed “blood feud” between darkspear and amani
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I missed everything between Wrath and Legion. I’ve picked up some details from questing and reading Lore but I feel like I do not have a clear picture of Garrosh.
In WoLK I mainly remember him being an ill tempered kid. He challenges Thrall to mok’gra while Orgrimmar is being attacked by the Scourge. He discounts Saurfang’s wisdom and starts stomping around the war map breaking stuff like a spoiled child. And then his ill tempered s%$t talking causes you to have to fight a mini-boss of Alliance NPCs in the Trial of the Crusader raid.
So coming back it was the least surprising thing ever that he turned out to be a disastrous Warchief. ‘Oh the kid with anger issues and the social skills of a honey badger turned out to be a war mongering tyrant? Well, duh’.
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they kinda did a 180° with garrosh as well.
in wrath one of his commanders attacked the alliance in the back, who was fighting versus the scourge.
horde troops seized the moment and literally attacked from behind, killing them all, trapped between the scourge and the horde.
What garrosh did? well, he threatened that commander because it was a cowards and “dishonorable” move.
Then we have in cata,stonelaton where he doesn’t want to kill civilians
and executes another of his commanders or himself saying that they should not use blight.
next thing we know is that he uses everything possible at his advantange for victory like the mana bomb, the sha’s and the hearth of y’sharj and the villain bat of him turning on other races in the horde. not even speaking of the torture of civillians.
seems like they needed a villain and a raid tier that is why they did it.
but i was more talking about AU grom. you know, draenor is fry.
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The devs kept hinting to us that they intended for him to gradually improve and grow into the role of warchief. They were saying things like, “He might not be as much of a disaster as you think.” And they planted a few seeds for it to happen, showing him learning from some of his mistakes. The high point of this was a quest chain in Stonetalon, where he rebuked and then executed one of his subordinates for a dishonorable action.
Then the devs changed their minds and threw all of that out the window. With the result that they then looked like they had been lying to us all through WotLK and Cata.
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