In a world revamp what villiains would you like to see?

Magatha Grimtotem because it’s well past the time we should have killed her and making her a focus villain raises the odds of killing her.

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Agreed. In another world revamp, the emphasis should be on there being more successful settlements, population centers, and general nice things out there in the world, not less. I’d like to keep the Black Empire stuff confined to a few zones, so that leveling would involve a sense of like, building up to the really evil areas, like in Classic.

As far as small-time antagonists in the less ruined zones: bandits? Centaur tribes? Alliance and Horde deserters? Rogue mogu? Scourge Warlords, like in current EP? More imaginative stuff, even, like crews of undead pirates, single rampaging monsters the player would have to track down, crazy wizards doing crazy wizard things.

And let’s keep the pop culture references to one a zone, max.

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A personal nemesis we eventually have to slap some sense into who goes on to be a new prominent character would be neat. Blizzard don’t do too many of those.

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Pheandra: “What villains? Why, the Horde.All over the place.”
Just saving Pheandra the time.

This one I totally agree with. It burned me that my shaman had to bring her into the Order Hall during Legion.

But overall, I just want to go somewhere and be an adventurer again. Focus on smaller threats. I’m worn out by these world ending threats.

That was my problem with the Star Wars EU. Every threat had to be bigger than the last one. So, let’s get back to, as Dunadriel says, small-time antagonists.

I like these ideas. Maybe there are still a few small pockets of Burning Legion units that need to be eliminated.

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Thanks babe… I mean evil filth!

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I’d like to see more villains that the player doesn’t defeat - or which the player stymies, but who escapes and come back at a higher level zone or in the endgame. Even for the villains we defeat, I’d like to see some of their named underlings escape so that the villain’s plot thread could continue.

Perhaps some cross-zone villains, too: Ones where the player spends one zone undoing their invasion, then progresses into their home turf in the next zone over.

Basically, I’d like to see villains/plot threads that span zones and connect them, and reward the player later for remembering the names of the characters/events that came before.

For specific villains:
The Scarlet Crusade and Defias have been ground into the dirt multiple times, but I’d like to see them continue to lurk around as villain organizations founded by new blood who take up the old organization’s theme and run with it. Likewise, the Twilight’s Hammer are likely to reappear in an Old God revamp, so it would be fun to have some more subtle doomsday cultist plots sprinkled across multiple zones.

Botani could be an interesting problem in Kalimdor, possibly working with some extremist druids that want to grow trees everywhere. (And I’d like to see some intra-druid arguments over the different ways to respect nature: conservation vs. returning to historical biome vs. letting things evolve as they may.)

A Mag’har-designed railroad across the Barrens could be fun - I’m thinking of having it run from Orgrimmar to Thunder bluff to replace that zeppelin, but it could have other routes. And there’s plenty of Wild West-themed adventures to be had while defending some pioneering railroad-builders. And plots to remove Botani infestations from the oases.

I think that any revamp has to be made with future expansions in mind - the zone stories should be able to stand on their own after the expansion they’re introduced with. So building up new villains (or refurbishing old ones), and then letting them survive rather than getting instantly annihilated by the almighty murder hobo, will be important to set the theme of the world and seed new plots that future stories can build on.

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This is off topic but this is one I don’t want to happen. Botani would make a great Alliance race that post Teldrassil angry elves build a rapport with to reclaim nature from the Horde in increasingly violent ways.

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The threat of a contiguous timeline. No more weird Garrosh popping up all over the place. It would be massive to revamp so many zones, yes, but if the devs can manage to peg a new specific starting point that will keep moving the story forward in a straight line to max level content, that would be great.

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Maybe like the remaining dread lords forming a new cabal and utilizing their abilities to consolidate power in a region. Like subverting the brotherhood of light into a new scarlet crusade like organization made for the sole purpose of creating tenison between Various organizations ( i.e attempting to spark an order war between the blood knights and silverhand?)

Maybe the syndicate seizes the opportunity to reclaim alterac and is attempting to gain recognizion as a legitimate human kingdom while at the same time funding and supplying criminal organizations to weaken the other human kingdoms and amass a large amount wealth to carry more power within the alliance?

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I’d want to see what Arthas would do if he didn’t become a genocidal undead maniac.

I’d also want to see what Sylvanas would do if she didn’t become a genocidal undead maniac.

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So like alternate timelines caverns of time content? That’d be awesome like an alternate timeline zone the culminates in an alternate timeline dungeon?

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Sort of. My first one was genuine. The one about sylvanas was snarky.

Arthas is my favorite villain because he was my insert in my first warcraft experience. I didn’t read any spoilers of the game when i first played it, so I thought he was the boring, generic human prince that was going to save the world from the orcs and the undead. I’m not asking for him to become a good guy. I want to see where his personality flaws would have taken him if the scourge wasn’t a thing. Was that the straw that broke the camel’s back? Because if you read the surprisingly well-written Arthas novel by Christie Golden, a traumatic event in his past (that i won’t spoil for you if you haven’t read it) is what made him become so fervent.

I’d love to see if he just became a lawful evil tyrant, or more a chaotic good king. But i’d want competent writers writing it, like the original WCIII team. Not Ion and his stooges.

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Without the scourge his next big fight would be against an honorable horde resurgence. Thrall was a good leader and surrounded himself with skilled commanders (saurfang grommash dommhammer) but without the scourge to shatter the original alliance I doubt they would have stood much of a chance even if they managed to rally all of the camps, brought the black Rock clan and dragonmaw back into the fold, and struck an alliance with with the zandalari empire I just don’t see the horde creating a significant enough threat to bring him down that same path. What threat would you have him face?

The Alliance doing evil, terrible things that are literally impossible for any sane person to forgive.

Sorry to say but Jaina could tsunami every Horde city and we would still be justified.

nah. That’s basically exactly what we need.

I mean sure I don’t mind slaughter of Horde races or cities but there is nothing wrong morally with the practice.

I think thrall lead the horde to Kalimdor pretty quickly after the Arthas’s first few skirmishes with the horde. I think where I’d have him diverge the path would be juuuust before the culling of stratholme. I’d have jaina and uther be able to talk sense into him, and let jaina try to “cure” the plague. When failed to do so, there’d be the battle of stratholme instead, and I’d have Uther die there by Mal’Ganis’s hand. That would have Arthas’s trust in Jaina be shattered. He’d kill Mal’Ganis during that battle, and not follow him to northrend, thus never touching Frostmourne, and never becoming a member of the scourge, but becoming much more of a hardened individual in the process.

That would cause the legion’s plan to have Ner’zhul ruin Lordaeron with the scourge fail, so they’d have to come up with another plan. That would be his first enemy. I’d like to see stormwind get involved, and have Varian and Arthas form a a bond fighting the legion together. Varian would see Arthas’s extreme methods, and they’d start to grow apart, and after the legion’s defeat, I’d see stormwind and lordaeron in a cold war.

:joy: :joy: :joy:

The Mograine family leads an expedition to Northrend where they become the first death knights and raise Uther to complete a sort of four horsemen dynamic because the lich King realizes that one champion is likely to fail? Arthas realizing that the scourge under the horsemen is far too dangerous be to face alone as the the scourge feigns an assault on lordaeron allowing the horsemen to sack quel’thalas and revive kel’thuzad calls on stormwind for aid. It could be really good