You’re intentionally arguing poorly. Arthas chose all of those things even picking up frostmourne.
Sylvanas didn’t choose to be a banshee. So arguing using your “Arthas has no personal responsibility because no win” you’ve just said sylvie has done nothing wrong ever since being raised as a banshee and it was all a result of a no win situation she didn’t even have an option to make a choice of.
“Night elves. More like country elves. They live in trees, sleep in dens, and sometimes even grow Antlers ! There not cut out for life in a REAL city.”
she did choose too butcher people up to make more undead, kill and attack civilian locations, via the gilneans who were not at war with anyone, and also the night elves, when the main goal was too hold hostages.
She also had experimentation for plagues on living humanoids, tortured them as well, killed her own cause she’d thought they betray them and even started a war for her own selfish gains
She did those things post being a banshee. You can say she had fee will past a certain point but then so did Arthas. If we’re using the argument that free will makes someone evil then Arthas is even more evil cuz what he did was in a far grander scale. You guys argue in circles to avoid holding him to the same standard. Free will is free will. They both had their minds distorted by what happened to them. But Arthas choose his and sylvanas didn’t. But yall argue irrationally trying to make Arthas out to be “not that bad” when he is just as bad if not worse.
see your assumption is wrong there too, idc about arthas either
Arthas made his choices, all of which were intentional sabotaged for there to be no right choice. Then he ceased to have free will.
Sylvanas, however, made no choices until she gained her free will. All of her choices were her own from that point forward, and everything she’s done? Gilneas? Teldrassil? It exceeds by a number of orders of magnitude what Arthas chose when he had free will.
Yeah I’m done responding to you if your argument is that no win situations = lack of free will. Even a bad choice is a choice that you make. That is free will.
Yeah, killing the infected people didn’t prevent them from becoming scourge but killing non-infected people (because he didn’t know which were which and made no effort to quarantine them until he could figure it out) did prevent them from…well, not dying.
So he accomplished nothing constructive but also killed some uninfected people along the way. World class noble decision making there, huh?
“Hey, some people are infected with a plague that’s going to kill them and raise them as undead. I know, I’ll…kill them, that’ll fix it.”
That’s not my argument at all. I’m pointing out Arthas never had the, “right choice,” option to begin with, but he still made his choices. Sylvanas? She never had those set-ups.
But, that’s not the point. The moment Arthas picked up Frostmourne until he died, everything he did was NOT his choice. He was a pawn, a puppet. Sylvanas from the moment she was free, made all of her choices herself.
Some of these people obviously didn’t take debate in high school.
What’s the alternative?
“Alright, we’re going to sit here and do nothing while this entire city becomes Scourge. Unfortunately we don’t have an army with us, so they’ll over-run us, spread into the country-side, and destroy the kingdom, but hey, at least our hands aren’t bloody, right?”
purging stratholme was the correct call.
No it isn’t morally right however it was the best option they had available in the interest of saving as many lives as possible. Within a week the entire city would have been an undead army that would overwhelm whatever forces they could pull together.
Even if they did muster enough forces to keep stratholme contained at the very least everyone in the city would still be dead but also countless soldiers dying and then being raised into the enemy’s ranks trying to hold the scourge within the city so they can’t spread across lordaeron.
From Rise of the Lich King:
“It doesn’t have to be too late,” he said quietly.
“No,” Arthas said quietly, staring raptly at the boy. “It doesn’t.”
He touched the curve of the boy’s cheek, slipped a hand beneath the small chin and tilted up the
shining face. He smiled into his own eyes.
“But it is.”
Frostmourne descended. The boy cried out, his shocked, betrayed, anguished cry—that of the wind
raging outside—and for a moment Arthas saw him standing there, the blade buried in his chest almost
as big as he was, and felt one final tremor of remorse as he met his own eyes.
Then the boy was gone. All that remained of him was the bitter keening of the wind scouring the
tormented land.
It felt…marvelous. It was only with the boy’s passing that Arthas truly realized how dreadful a
burden this last struggling scrap of humanity had been. He felt light, powerful, purged. Scoured clean,
as Azeroth would soon be. All his weakness, his softness, everything that had ever made him hesitate or
second- guess himself—it was all gone, now.
There was only Arthas, Frostmourne, all but singing at having claimed the final piece of Arthas’s
soul, and the orc, whose skull- face was split with triumphant laughter.
“Yes!” the orc exhilarated, laughing almost maniacally. “I knew you would make this choice. For so
long you have wrestled with the last dregs of goodness, of humanity in you, but no longer. The boy
held you back, and now you are free.” He now got to his feet, his body still that of an old orc, but
moving with the ease and fluidity of the young.
“We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner’zhul, no more Arthas—only
this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can—”
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
Arthas stepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the
dream- being that had once been Ner’zhul, then the Lich King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the
gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
“No,” Arthas whispered. “No we. No one tells me what to do. I’ve got everything I need from you—
now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready.”
The orc shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished.
yall see this as “the right call” because it saved alliance lives. do you also agree with the things sylvanas did that “weren’t morally right” but helped the horde? the reason i stopped responding to that dude that can’t debate his way out of a paper bag is because he isn’t even trying to be objective or neutral or see things from any place but “arthas gud and did gud things and sylvie bad and did bad things” completely ignoring things like what arthas did to nerzhul and that he did in fact have free will and made choices on his own past a certain point. i like arthas too but won’t ever be an apologist who outright lies to try to say he’s just some misunderstood dude who got a bad rap. he was evil. that’s part of the reason why i like him though. lol
“I just genocided the kingdom I was destined to rule, the neighboring kingdom full of elves, and became the lord of the Undead. It’s no big deal, right?”
Kill them all, let the Arbiter sort it out.
After fixing the Arbiter. Or not.
he chose to do that too. no one forced him to pick up frostmourne. he did it of his own free will. he said the price didn’t matter. he knew what he was doing. the people who argue against it are going against arthas and his own actual choices. it’s hilarious tbh.
Most of the city ended up becoming Scourge anyway. Because killing people doesn’t exactly stop them from being turned into undead, that’s the whole point.
Arthas’s plan just caused the whole city, included those who were uninfected at that point (it’s not like every person in the city ate the grain the day it was delivered) to die and become Scourge fodder right along with the infected.
I think it’s just second-option bias combined with edginess. “Arthas is a bad guy because he killed a whole lot of people” is the common understanding, and the obvious one - so people feel like they’re being smart when they challenge that and argue the opposite, like they found the secret truth.
But sometimes there is no secret edgy truth, sometimes the guy who killed a bunch of people and also killed the ones who warned him not to curse himself with an evil sword…is just a bad person.
yep. they’re both terrible people in life and after the fact. they both went down the rabbit hole of trying to do things for the greater good. i know what sylvanas has done and what arthas has done. they both chose to do those things. but arthas fans pretend that he wasn’t evil and just misunderstood. if sylvanas is evil (and she is) arthas is just as evil.