I'm in favor of the timeskip

My main issue with WoW timeskips is how they’re not properly represented in the game. The game world is just static. You say time has gone by but there’s all this construction that isn’t done, entire cities that are forever in shambles, refugees in the same places, no progress being made on anything. It’s cool that the lore is progressing, but players don’t actually get to see any of it happening. There’s so much cool stuff that just isn’t reflected in the game because nothing ever changes.

I know from a gameplay and business standpoint, Blizzard doesn’t want to put time and resources into updating anything if the story isn’t actively focused on it, but we’re WAY overdue for a full world update at this point. The last one was with Cataclysm. That was 12 years ago.

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The Night Elves already took back Darkshore and Ashenvale in canon.

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That’s been explained numerous times since BfA. But some people oddly keep bringing it up :dracthyr_crylaugh:

in an twitter statement…or no, sorry blizzcon. compare this to “get their stuff sacked in an big on screen event”

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It doesn’t matter where the statement was made, it’s official canon. They have retaken both of those zones. That’s the reality, whether you disagree with it or not.

I do appreciate the correspondence from the company and it is nice to know someone is reading these. Feels an awful lot like we’re shouting in the dark out here.

You mentioned a short story that will expand on the lore but not be required reading. I applaud this as I firmly believe the purpose of multimedia should be to flesh out aspects of a world the core product simply doesn’t have the time to. Star Wars springs to mind. There’s a comic or book or video game going over every random alien or item or planet in frequently exhausting detail but none of that is remotely necessary to understand the story.

What I’d recommend, if feasible, would be a series of optional questlines or perhaps even just text dialogue with NPCs who can shed some light on their personal experiences in the intervening years.

For the quests I’d suggest they’re totally optional, even somewhat dry affairs that rely on character to be interesting. Gretchin Dedmar’s rather dramatically named ‘The Chill of Death’ quest comes to mind. You’re doing nothing but helping a clearly senile old undead women knit sweaters for the Forsaken’s soldiers. She appears to think herself near death and believes knitting sweaters (or I think cloaks actually) will be helpful for people at least physically immune to being chilly.

And I do so love that quest. Because it shows a softer side to the Forsaken. They don’t do away with this clearly out of it old woman, they totally accept her and even humor her extremely pointless requests. And in her own way maybe she is helping. Perhaps a Deathguard who’s lost everyone and truly feels alone might feel a bit of an emotional warmth at a nice lady being concerned about him. A sweater is of course useless to him but as the old adage goes; it’s the thought that counts.

That’s the part of WoW’s world building I’ve always adored. Killing demon kings and demi gods and dire dragons might be more interesting in the moment. But for me it’s learning about the minutia and mundane aspects of these fantastical nations and the denizens therein that set my imagination on fire.

Perhaps that’s a bit too much to ask for though. Obviously the Dragonflight expansion is the primary resource focus at this time and I completely understand as I can’t imagine ‘helping undead grandma enthusiasts’ make up a sizeable portion of paying customers. No accounting for taste in this world, tragically.

But I’d point to a more recent moment from BFA as an alternative. Stumbling upon the Unshackled characters from 8.2 was simply delightful. I can’t remember when precisely I did. But I was so excited to see them. They’d been stapled to my character’s leg for the better part of months afterall and I had wondered what had become of them.

Simply seeing them and getting a post script of “Yeah thanks for the help we’re just vibing on the Durotar beach and doing great” was all I needed, really. I wouldnt have wanted a huge questline for it. Just some indication the story has moved on and an illusion that the non playerable characters are - well, characters- who move on and do other stuff after you’ve sorted out their ! dandruff is quite nice.

Obviously for things like reclaiming Gilneas you absolutely want that to be an on screen affair. But please do remember you are Dungeon Masters, not Movie Directors. A little can go a long way if you let our imaginations run with it.

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I think the complaint is that there wasn’t a big ingame win. Or something like that.

I mean, the Battle for Darkshore was a win for them. So all the events leading up to that battle, and the battle itself, minus the death of Sira Moonwarden. That’s a pretty big deal.

Sadly most of the Fourth Wars events were told via the BFA mission table, not actual events that we got to see play out in-game.

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Yeah, that’s sad and it’s a major complaint that gets bought up a lot. Which is what I think zahir was trying to say

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Going to disagree on what Zahir was trying to say.

I mean he flat out said that either the Night Elves will be ‘given’ their land back, or they’ll never get it back in canon because ‘the Alliance is never allowed to reclaim their lands and retake it by force’, they’re always ‘at the mercy of the Horde’.

Which I corrected him on, because that’s just flat out false, as the Night Elves took back their land by force.

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Fair. Not saying he was right, just trying to look at it from a different angle is all :dracthyr_heart:

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A twitter post is next to worthless. It can be forgotten or ignored easily or on a whim. It’s also insulting to players, especially Alliance players, who get wrecked in glorious detail only later to ‘win’ offscreen.

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On top of this, it’s funny how the Undercity was plague nuked into oblivion, yet the Forsaken were able to retake it in the span of 2 years. Theramore was manabombed a decade or nearly a decade ago. There has been absolutely no effort to rebuild it by the Alliance.

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Dear, my critique was about the old wording in media"show, don’t tell"

I never dismissed that the nightelves retake a dead darkshore and almost all of ashenvale

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This is what you said, word for word:

And when I told you that the Night Elves literally pushed the Horde out, as per canon lore, and reclaimed their land, you tried to dismiss that as ‘a twitter post’ as if something being confirmed on Twitter suddenly isn’t relevant (it always is), and now you’re trying to claim that you ‘never dismissed the Night Elves retaking a dead Darkshore and almost all of Ashenvale.’

Again these are your words:

You were wrong, you got called out for being wrong. Just take the L and accept that you messed up.

It’s okay to be wrong and make mistakes, we all do it. But when you have messed up, don’t try to deflect and act like you never said the things you said. Especially when they can be quoted.

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Well they did invent the Blight and moreover happened to have a line to the literal cosmic domain of all things spooky. As the quest shows theyre working on it but don’t quite have the tech tree advancemented yet. Their plague eaters can’t hold the load.

And in a meta sense it’s a hugely important playerhub. Which is why I’m sure Teldrassil will be back even though moving the capitol would be more narratively interesting. Seriously it’s extremely difficult to navigate half the world without the UC or Tel so idk about you but Ive the time walking versions up at all times or wander annoyed to the Chrome dragon person whenever it’s not.

It was a poorly thought out marketing stunt and the two hubs need to be back if they ever want to set anything on Azeroth proper again.

As for Theramore I actually resent it’s destruction most Alliance fans do. It was the best place to pick a fight. Storming the place and seizing the boats was delightful. Particularly as in the old days you might load in mid combat and suddenly be scattered all over the place.

It was delightful. Shame the Horde never had an easy to attack Zeppelin route. You can be very cruel with fights in Zeppelins as I learned in Classic. Never picked a fight but I do talk ish, and mind controlling that 15 levels higher warrior to his death, splattering upon the beaches of Tirisfal as we hit the loading screen was simply - perfect. Hope he learned a lesson or two about running his mouth simply because he was the only one with a matching outfit.

So we’ll still have characters in the Eastern Kingdom talking about Garrosh Hellscream or Sylvanas and their invasions of this or that? Cataclysm was 10 years old before we went into the Shadowlands, the old world needs and update. Some places like Silvermoon and Azuremyst are stuck 13 years before Shadowlands. The idea that we have to see it going on in Dragonflight instead of ‘off screen’ is ridiculous since it should’ve happened on screen well before Shadowlands and certainly during BFA for a lot of zones. I get u want everyone focused on the new place but you can’t keep neglecting the old world.

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The problem is that it’s a reality that is only reflected in twitter posts and on-line stories that most players will never see or even know about. The only reality of the game that actually matters to most people is that which is shown within the game itself. In Twitter, Ashenvale may now be 100% Alliance, but go there and you’ll find Zoram’Gar stands still tall and Astranaar burns forever.

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This is your destiny, though. Being second-class player for paying the same price. It’s not your fault but the developers.

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Darling, my point still stands! An Empire might be their chosen tool to control everything, the whole rule of Two was a disaster in waiting even without an imperialist system. Darth Vader wanted to rule with his son, Palpatine would have recruited Luke, Leia, or any powerful force user if need be, both outcomes fragilizing an already fragile balance. And G-A Thrawn WAS way more of a tactician than Darthy anyway, which canonically is weird since the latter was a fully trained Jedi AND general. Darth Vader still had his own mind, even if he was the Emperor’s Fist, and still made extremely bad decisions (Yavin, Hoth, and many more if you expand to extended lore, like leaving Kenobi alive). I will also add that although he obliterated Alderaan, committing a literal genocide, Anakin was fully redeemed literally 5 minutes after he died by the Force itself…

The whole point of my previous comment is not to say that Star Wars, or Darth Vader, are bad stories/characters. I am saying that it’s a shame that people who hate Sylvanas keep bringing her up every chance they get (even though she is not even involved), repeating the same mental shortcuts to belittle the work of the lore team in fixing her arc after the terrible hand they were dealt after BfA, while there are lots of villains out there, with many flaws, a list of dubious decisions, unresolved arcs, who are still beloved. I chose Star Wars (I DO love Darth Vader), but I could have said Loki, Dexter, Hannibal Lecter, the Joker…

The point is still the same! Those persons’ obsession with repeating their Anti-Sylvanas rant is just infantile when most of them wouldn’t dare to utter anything against any of the villains I mentioned before. And these guys are on EVERY POST! It’s getting old!