Illidan's Demon Hunter training

So… I was sifting through some old texts about our favorite (or not so favorite) Demon Hunter, and back during the War of Ancients Illidan was already blind. In game in the instance of Well of Eternity he was seen without the Warglaives of Azzinoth. But he was already a Demon Hunter.

Before the War of Ancients he was a gifted sorcerer and had great potential to be the best Druid had he applied himself to Cenarius’ teachings.

Illidan’s crimes by creating the new Well of Eternity in Hyjal created the tree, so he must’ve gotten the Warglaives of Azzinoth between the time of filling the vials as the Well imploded and before his trial and eventual imprisonment by the wardens. But this is never specified in game or in lore… or at least to my general understanding.

So what I am trying to grasp is when exactly did Illidan become the first Demon Hunter and how did he do it if the Legion wasn’t contacted until the Highborne’s reckless use of arcane magic didn’t notify them?

I know Azzinoth was a lesser demon but he had to have contact with the Legion before at some point in order to become a hunter of them. Anyone have any insight on this?

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The actual timing of him becoming a demon hunter has always been a bit unclear. In the novels’ version of events - which were in effect a false timeline, but not entirely - he was still a mage when he got imprisoned, so even though he had the burnt-out eyes, he wasn’t wielding fel magic to a significant degree yet and it left no real room for him to have trained in a whole new manner of fighting built around it.

Conversely, in the pre-novel (i.e. WC3 Manual) and Chronicle versions (arguably the same approximate version, albeit somewhat tweaked and further fleshed out in Chronicle) by the time he got his burnt-out eyes and fel tattoos, he had switched sides to fight for Azshara, so there wasn’t really any window for him to have still been fighting and killing demons as a demon hunter at that point, let alone fighting and killing Azzinoth in particular for his blades.

So arguably the only way for it to work would be if his transformation occurred in two steps, where he slew Azzinoth and created the new demon hunter “style” of combat with the warglaives during the first part of the war when he was still fighting for the night elves (though at some point after Black Rook Hold, when he was still fighting as a mage), then completed the transition by gaining his demonic sight and fel tattoos when he switched sides to Sargeras and Azshara.

Admittedly there remains some confusing overlap between both versions of history, as Chronicle and numerous in-game events during Legion remain predominantly adherent to the original course of events, while there are things like the quest in which players experience the battle at Black Rook Hold including Broxigar, a symptom of the alternate timeline’s version. By some unknown means it comes across like Nozdormu’s way of “fixing” the disruption of events from the Old Gods was to sort of mesh together both versions of the War of the Ancients, so that both of them kinda/sorta happened, though the older version seems to mostly take precedence. Thus various bits and pieces of the altered version are sort of stapled on to make sure certain things (like Broxigar’s deeds in the past being remembered by witnesses on Argus, his Axe of Cenarius existing on Azeroth in the future during Stormrage, and the blue dragonflight being significantly restored from their original state of near-extinction due to Krasus gathering a bunch of eggs in the past) exist in spite of the original version not really allowing for them.

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There was a version of the WotA that said that war lasted a lot, like a couple years or so which would have given him plenty time to Master a whole new class and have time to teach it to some few select followers.
The other WotA version was super fast and him becoming a DH it such a short period is kinda iffy.
A wild theory is that by killin Azzinoth he absorbed his knowledge and skills with Warglaives and so he used that to start his Demon Hunter’s ways.

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I can see that happening but how would he be able to use Shroud of Concealment (a rogue skill) and yet still have Demon Hunter abilities in the Well of Eternity dungeon, before killing Azzinoth. And this is also before his imprisonment after making the new Well in Hyjal. To me it sounds like an oversight of his character as stated by Raselle with the two timelines.

This is where I’m drawing a blank and I wish Blizzard had fully fleshed out Illidan’s true origins without the Xe’ra questline. Was hoping with the Demon Hunter quests would reveal it, but those events happen during BC. So I guess it is just lost or a retcon.

All it is is becoming a demon but having the willpower to not side with the Legion, man. That and Illidan was a wizard before hand.

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Demon Hunters have always been a Rogue + Warlock hybrid class, that goes back to the original Warcraft III, in which Illidan has access to Evasion (in-game now, Demon Hunters get Blur) and Immolation Aura (the only difference between that and Warlocks’ Immolate is one sets yourself on fire, the other sets…other things on fire).

This has long been my interpretation, just based on the information we have (not to toot my own horn, but I have kind of obsessively studied Illidan over the years, so…):

  1. We know Illidan had his eyes burned out and his flesh branded with tattoos shortly after arriving at the Eternal Palace, during his first meeting with Sargeras. This, to me, marks the transition period from merely “talented sorcerer” to “demon hunter able to see the flow of magic being worked.” Time-travel plot devices aside, War of the Ancients makes it very clear that Illidan’s newfound abilities at this point include his Spectral Sight, which is, like, the #1 Iconic Ability for a demon hunter.

  2. He doesn’t actually obtain the Warglaives of Azzinoth until much later; I think a common misconception about demon hunters is that they must be carrying a pair of warglaives. While that style of weapon is their primary/preferred mode of combat, it’s definitely not the only one; we see Allari wielding the Scythe of Souls in Legion, and even after going from Rogue to Demon Hunter, Vandel in the novel Illidan continues to use a pair of daggers. So the concept of Illidan remaining a spell-caster, even after becoming a demon hunter, isn’t totally unbelievable.

  3. So, when did he obtain his Warglaives, and why didn’t Mannoroth sense Azzinoth being slain? I would say the most likely answer to both is that Illidan made his move around the same time that the Kaldorei Resistance stormed the palace grounds, near the very end of the War of the Ancients. In the War of the Ancients novel, we know Illidan and Tyrande were initially on the ground, fighting off demons alongside Malfurion, who was there in spirit form. Regardless of interpretation, there was most likely a pretty big battle going on down there as Azeroth’s defenders made their way toward the Well of Eternity, and with Sargeras preparing to enter via the portal, Mannoroth’s attention would have been elsewhere.

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Illidan had no followers before he hooked up with the Blood Elves and Naga and apparently some dissafected Night Elves that he may have talked to during his long imprisonment. All of his followers during WOTA he had pulled a Lokai on them.

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Exactly; for all intents and purposes, Illidan created the class himself. He wasn’t just the first demon hunter—during the War of the Ancients, he was the only one.

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Some time during the War of the Ancients is when Sargeras burned out his eyes. This, along with his random warglaives and tattoos in the instance, is assumedly when he became a Demon Hunter. Essentially Sargeras did most of the work.

I don’t think he was using a rogue skill. In the dungeon he says this.

The shadows will hide us well.
I am concealed by this shadowcloak, and can imbue its magics onto you.

It always sounded to me like it was some item.

Either that or his own demon hunter abilities—he had already been branded by that point, and we know for a fact that demon hunters are able to tap into the powers of darkness to an extent (as seen with, well…Darkness).

It’s also possible that Illidan’s natural affinity for shadow as a Night Elf (Shadowmeld) was made even stronger by his transformation.

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Night Elf rogues and catform druids are considered more stealthy than their counterparts in other races.

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Yup; now imagine what demonic powers will do when thrown into the mix.

Hmmm I never thought of that interesting. I really wish we would have gotten out third spec with juicy lore like back in Legion… maybe like Warlocks Shadow Spec in Affliction/Shadow Priest Old God theme… but maybe with a twist like Overwatch Moira shifting Light to Dark or combining it to Fel with a bit of Arcane in the mix? May maybe that way Void and Nightborn elves could join or Ranks… :thinking:
Maybe even Troll since they seem to have a similar Racial class in WC3 call Shadow Hunters? But I think they deal more with SL spirits and horrors than… Demons I think… :thinking:

Oh well… Blizz did say 2 specs was more than enough and the class does feel kind of complete… Its more likely they add another new Class or re-invent a Old Classic one from W3 to WoW… than try to add just one spec… I think…
:sweat_smile: :man_shrugging:

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I mean, most of the core demon hunter abilities have made their way into current content: Evasion became Blur, we got Immolation Aura and Metamorphosis, there’s even a PvP Talent called Mana Break that’s likely based on the original Mana Burn ability (which was a Shadow Priest ability back in Vanilla).

It would’ve been interesting to see how a ranged dps spec for demon hunters might have turned out, maybe take inspiration from the way Metamorphosis originally worked for Warlocks, as well as Phase 3 of the Illidan raid encounter.

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I WOULD DIE of Hype if that happened! :exploding_head:

Oh god of Fel Sargeras… please let the lead dev team like this read and idea so we can see something like this in the future, then you can take my soul and can die happy!

Sincerely your Slayer,

Oz

:laughing:

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If we kill you with hype, then we don’t actually have to deliver then, do we?

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Depends; did you kill him with hype inside the Twisting Nether?

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:sweat_smile: :joy: :rofl:

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Try to be careful when using the Well of Eternity Instance as a reference for Illidan’s origin, and powers as a Demon Hunter.
There are implications that that instance was an alternate timeline, and not really connected to the main timeline events. So…take that instance with a grain of salt.
I also wouldn’t trust Xe’ra’s visions either, she seemed, rather “obsessed”, with making Illidan her “champion” of the sorts. In her vision, Illidan took getting his eyes burned out, and stood up, like it was no big thing. In the novel, it was agonizing beyond anything else, and he had to magically put himself in a coma just to keep Sargeras from learning his secrets.

If memory serves, there was also a scene in the WotA novels, where between the time Illidan cast his spell to use the Dragon Soul to reverse the portal, and by the time Malfurion got to Tyrande’s location, Illidan fought and killed a large amount of demons.
I think Azzinoth was among that group ,and that is where he got the Warglaives. Because there was no mention of him having them before that, but we know he had them after they escaped the Sundering. They were later mounted on a rack outside his prison cell.
As for the vials, he seemed to already have those and were already filled, before he met up with Tyrande during her escape, because he used one on himself.
I think Illidan “officially” became a self-proclaimed Demon Hunter, after he got out of prison.

Here is a question or two to think about though. If Illidan had the vials taken away from him by Malfurion and Tyrande after his arrest, how did he get them back after his release? Better yet, where did he ever get them from in the first place?

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Implications? Lol, it was literally part of an endgame questline that involved the player stealing the Demon Soul from the past in order to use it against Deathwing in the present.

Definitely an alternate timeline.

Xe’ra was definitely obsessed with Lightforging Illidan; given that she wasn’t above forcing him into this against his will, I wouldn’t put it past her to plant false visions in the player’s head (or in Illidan’s head, back when she first approached him in the Illidan novel).

Illidan doesn’t actually engage in combat until after Malfurion’s arrival at the palace.

Initially, Illidan has snuck out of the palace (after creating an illusion of himself meditating in his chambers) in order to approach the Well of Eternity in secret, so as to avoid alerting Mannoroth. On the way there, he encounters Tyrande and we have the scene where he begins to cast the spell you’re talking about (which gets strengthened/subverted by the Old Gods).

By the time Malfurion shows up, the Well of Eternity has grown so unstable that Illidan himself admits to not wanting to cast any more spells, even to teleport, lest Mannoroth intercept him and Tyrande.

So it would have been during the ensuing battle on the ground, during which Illidan and Malfurion are in two places at once, that Illidan earned his famous warglaives.

He filled all the vials with water from the Well of Eternity; he had more than one vial on him when he created the second Well at Mt. Hyjal, but was interrupted before he could empty them all.

I think if Malfurion and Tyrande considered the Wardens competent enough to guard Illidan, they would likely have left the vials in the Wardens’ keeping, as well. So Illidan likely retrieved them along with his warglaives when Tyrande freed him ten thousand years later.

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