its quite hypocritical to both demand a soloqueue mode and ask that premades be blocked from playing in normal modes. just because you have no friends does not mean you need to make people who do as miserable as you.
you aren’t on every single night and for all the hours we play to queue against. unless you are willing to sit there and fill a team to play against 24/7/365, war games are not a viable solution. its a random battleground, part of that means getting a random team, some will be more difficult than others.
I don’t know, so that’s why I’m asking Is making a premade more than five against the rules? Or is it just something that’s frowned upon. If it’s a rule that they don’t enforce, then it’s actually blizzards fault.
the current situation as i understand it is that addons which sync queues for you are not allowed, however if players want to try and sync groups the blues will not stop them as they can’t monitor every single pvp group 24/7.
additionally, the more people who play pvp, the less premades are able to get large groups together. RUIN was only able to get 40 man premades because the queue times on ally were instant, so they could just keep queueing and dropping until they get a fully synced pop. on BG week when more people were playing bgs on ally as well as mercing, this broke their ability to get a fully sync’d group and they stopped for a bit.
compare that to horde where you may have up 10-30 players try for a sync, but after 20 minutes of waiting you will often get something like a 2/3 split, where 2 5 mans get one game, and 3 get another.
larger pools of players can help break up the premades, this is one where mixed factions woudl solve several problems at once.
the downside though is that epic premades are healthy for the game, the communities behind them keep players playing and help them do stuff they can’t do solo. breaking up their ability to play as a community is exactly what wow does not need atm. as much as solo’s need to be able to play the game, solo players don’t grow the game, you need to bring a friend if you want it to grow and be a better, more enjoyable experience.
They’re circumventing game restrictions and they gain an unfair advantage over the other team.
Premade raids vs. pugs isn’t fair when the bracket isn’t supposed to have premade raids.
Some premade raiders are honest and they can admit this:
It’s also the fault of the people who break the rules. We shouldn’t be giving cheaters/exploiters a pass just because Blizzard hasn’t gotten around to fixing the problem yet.
While these people proclaim how wonderful this premade raid gameplay is for their teammates, they conveniently don’t mention how their exploitative gameplay negatively affects the matchmaking system and the players on the other team.
its hard to argue this when horde win rates are generally the same in epics whether you soloqueue or premade. the issue is ally pugs dont listen, so ally leads often just dont bother. blaming premades ignores the fact that ally doesn’t win solo matches either.
also, nowhere is it in the rules that you can’t have everyone in voice, we use discord, but in game voice is also freely available. but the popularity of discord makes it hard to get people into in game voice, also the fact that in game voice is unstable doesn’t help. so I would love to see some integration of discord with the game to replace its voice client. if you could just drop a link into game with a push of a button, have players click that and auto join your channel with discord that might help.
but the reality is the premades you complain about are just as random of a mix of pvpers as you would get in any random epic, the reason for that is they are all recruited from random epics.
I completely agree, but if they continue to look the other way and do nothing about, it’s blizzards fault.
They are a billion dollar company, there is no excuse for not fixing it. If it’s one of the rules, and they don’t enforce it, it’s going to continue to happen until they do something about it, plain and simple.
Maybe add honor and/or conquest, a mount or title, make it queable like normal bgs instead of the awful set up it has now, or whatever reasonable requests that might make war games more viable and get more people involved. You could even advocate for rated 25 man.
I’d agree that PvP communities are good for the game, but the types that have a work around to play the larger bgs are also having a negative impact. Do you honestly think solo players or players who stick to the 5 man limit enjoy facing a premade or they feel more inclined to join those bgs? I’d say it probably drives some solo players away. Especially alliance solo players who apparently already struggle to win pug vs pug.
I am not so sure it’s that easy. Blizzard staggered queues and added an artificial timer in classic to break alliance premades and it worked, but they still found a way around. They simply formed a discord, queued a bg and everyone who got the queue took the queue and joined the channel number in discord that matched their bg number. It wasn’t uncommon to have 25-30 players on disc in the same bg. It was pugs on voice and they were dominating AV. I’m not sure how Blizzard can stop something like that.
I’m not interested in being friends. I’m interested in playing a fair bg.
You’re offering up the tired old excuses for premades that have existed for years.
Everyone who plays with friends should have no issue playing against other people also playing with their friends. Yes, Virginia, even if it’s a full premade against another full premade. Blizzard logs everything you do in the game. If they can track people pulling off trade scams, and they can track the number of perfect strangers you queue up with in a dungeon for an achievement to get a pet, they can track who groups up with who, how many times, and why.
But everytime I mention this, I get at least one answer of “But what’s the point of premading, then?” Funny, that.
this a hundred times, there are skill-less people like me who plays bgs all day, i’m f bad in arenas i do all i can but still i’m bad, let me buy my gear in a slow pace without rating, being stomped once and once again should grant full gear too
the problem is you don’t always have a full raid on, now you are back to the problem of raiding and RBGs, everyone has to show up on time and prepared, no dynamic grouping. the current system allows groups of variable sizes to try to get into the same game.
rated takes the fun out and kills the ability to socially play.
you have to realize that we aren’t premading to pwn solos, in fact the better comp IMO is a 25ish size epic comm premade on each team with the rest filled by solos and unassociated smaller premade groups.
btw, a lot of former SPM are now SAS, you should come play a few games with us
who says i want to bring a full premade? maybe i have 7 people who want to play together right now? then after a game or two we jump up to 10, then a few more games up to 13, then 15. at primetime we might hit 25 and some nights even as high as 35, but then after prime time groups start dropping back down in size and then you are left with less than 10 or so queueing till its just a single group.
if you lock people into playing with preset premade vs premade only games, you completely elimintate that dynamic style of grouping which is quite popular becuase it allows people to just play on their own time and own terms and just join up with a group when they are ready to pvp. no need to worry about schedules or feeling obligated to show up when you would rather be playing something else.
If players who enjoyed coordinated large scale had a system that allowed them to queue specifically for that and viable reasons to do so, how would that be a bad thing? The problem I see is that some people want a play style that isn’t supported by the current system and it forces that play style on players who don’t want to be part of it. Trying to find a way to make large bgs enjoyable for both premades and solo players doesn’t seem like a bad suggestion to me.
Blizzard could stop it if they wanted to, They have the resources, like somebody pointed out. They can go back three years to a conversation you had with somebody and tell you exactly what you said. Sometimes we got between 8 and 10 people in our discord. We tried to queue up for the same BG but when the queue pops, we take it, whether we all get in the same one or not.
This is from the other topic that I made that I posted right now, I think this would be a good solution. Instead of going back and forth, why not come up with a solution.
Already made a couple of suggestions and have been discussing them with Inemia.
It’s easy to blame Blizzard. I’ve done my share of that, but when players use a third party program to organize and coordinate outside of the game, what is Blizzard supposed to track? Our activity on discord?
Hey did you recruit that Battlemaster guy from forums into your premade?
Yesterday zoned into a fresh offense WG (ugh), opened up/skimmed the BG charts for a few moments before I left. Skimmed the list and saw the usual names in there (Mesostealthy, etc), but also saw Battlemaster’s name there on his Horde/Blood Elf toon.
Almost never run into him when solo-q’ing random pug epics, so I’m assuming he was part of your premade or a tag-along recruit your people recently invited. When there’s multiple forum’s people on the same team, that probably isn’t a coincidence
