You can’t relate the 2 because they both suffer for different reasons, with warriors it being a stat problem, that will make them need to be nerfed in ICC if they are buffed now.
I’d love to hear some suggestions for buffs for warriors that won’t make them more ridiculous than they already are once they can hardcap armor pen.
The other issue with warriors too is they are already S-Tier in pvp, and they’ve stated they don’t want to disrupt pvp balance, so how do you buff warriors without making them Giga S-Tier in pvp?
I wouldn’t mind if they removed the Hand of Reckoning buff once ICC hits.
But it wouldn’t make a difference even if Blizzard removed it right now. People will hate on Ret no matter what.
I’ve heard people say remove the 10% damage reduction on Titan’s Grip. Might work: the % can be scaled easily enough if needed, and I’ve yet to see a Fury warrior in PVP.
That’s because fury doesn’t have a reliable mortal strike. Buffing titans grip wouldn’t change that. It might nudge them up a bit in PvE but it doesn’t solve the inherent problem they have with armor penetration. Theres a reason Armor Penetration was a one and done secondary stat.
Well, I don’t think Armor Pen needs to be solved, per say. I imagine if Blizzard wants to buff Fury, they want to do so in the least intrusive way possible. Its easier to fix Titan’s Grip than Armor penetration, and it moves PVE dps in the right direction.
I should rephrase that while Armor Pen is a problem, its not a problem that has to be solved, and everyone can still be happy in the end.
So let’s say they remove the penalty and warriors are still underperforming, what do you do then? Because like or not armor penetration is part of the problem no matter what.
I mean they kind of already laid out their stance on this, as they’ve said arms warriors have a viable alternative spec, which happens to scale at a staggeringly increasing trend as gear gets better, so…
While that is true, I’m sympathetic to the arguments that warriors have given for a buff. They feel like they don’t contribute enough to the raid in terms of utility/buffs like we do, and both of their DPS specs are on the low end in PVE at the moment.
Note the bold. Now i’ve read your reasoning for why a comparison between T10 2pc bonus and Armor Penetration scaling is not honest, and I’m not disagreeing out of hand, but Warriors are experiencing what we would have experienced for this entire expansion if Blizzard hadn’t stepped in.
For now, I’m curious to see what the logs for all specs look like after a month or two. The numbers might change, and Fury might start edging away from Ret in a good way.
It’s only good to a point, then you get nothing tangible from it.
It only takes like 2 DSacs to cover everything you need to.
The “but ret brings utility!” Kind of fails as an argument when the best guilds largely weren’t bringing ret for their utility because their damage was too bad and there were paladin specs that brought the same utility that weren’t just significantly worse than every other option in that role.
They got that before ret paladins did from the Ulduar ilvl buffs providing them significantly more ArP.
Had that not happened, they wouldn’t have leap frogged over ret in this phase to the degree that they did.
Aye, I wasn’t thinking of DSac/AM, my brain was focused on blessings at the time, which all has cross coverage.
You can stack DSac/AM, but none of the fights need more than 2, which you get from your holy/prot paladins, so it generally isn’t something you are seeking a ret for (plus ret can’t get DSac without sacrificing extra damage talents, where there’s no sacrifice for holy/prot paladins to grab it)
There’s literally no utility in paladin that justifies ret being below bottom tier DPS like they were.
Locks also have stackable utility between Healthstones/soulstones/curses while being among the top DPS, plus bringing the best spell damage buff in demo. Utility isn’t a great measuring stick for how much damage a class should do. They all bring some.