Then can you actually articulate how there is a difference? Without invoking vibes, nostalgia, or completely changing how server shards work.
As for this, I see no point trying to frame World PvP as the victim of people who don’t participate in it, nor that people who want World PvP to be even more incentivized are the victims of those who don’t care. War Mode comes with unique resource gathers, world quests, currencies, and a bonus to gold and experience, and people still choose not to play it in large quantities. Waxing nostalgic about it is fine, but it won’t cause people to manifest into existence to support an old server type that Blizzard elected to remove. There were reasons that they moved away from that old structure. Again, if you feel there aren’t enough activities in War Mode, that is a separate discussion. I don’t fully agree with that discussion, as there are many incentives for it already, but a PvP server is divorced from the issue, which is that there are not many people who are actively seeking World PvP. Creating an old-format server from the discontinued PvP server system isn’t going to have people coming out of the woodwork for it, or they wouldn’t have moved away from it in the first place.
Yeah this basically leads to the people who do choose to try war mode, not really being people who want to be there. They just want the extras
Nobody has demonstrated this case, though. Hell, when people have asked for what’s different between warmode and a PVP server, nobody has provided an answer. Just that PVPers don’t like it.
PVP servers as a rule were in a terrible place when Blizzard pulled the plug and went to war mode. We can count on one hand the number of PVP servers that weren’t so faction imbalanced that they were effectively PVE servers. We can debate the various reasons why the servers got into that state and discuss modern methods Blizzard has for preventing the servers from getting there again. But at the end of the day, war mode was an attempt to salvage PVP from a terrible place.
You are painting PVE players with a very broad brush here. PVP servers in the past DID have an impact on PVE players in the past in two ways. But when those impacts are brought up in this thread, the PVP players completely dismiss them as being selfish or pretend it won’t possibly have an impact on them. There is no reason for PVE players to trust these impacts wouldn’t come to roost again when they’re told “don’t worry about it” when they raise those valid concerns.
I’ve already said numerous times that I am not opposed to some number of PVP servers returning to retail. But PVP supporters are not making a compelling case for why PVE players should support this initiative. All they hear is they should just blindly support a feature they are being told has no benefit for them that has previously had a negative impact on their experience. Is it really a surprise you are getting pushback?
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Some people in this thread are constantly asking why we want a pvp server.
But they can’t seem to answer why they don’t want a server they have no intentions to join?
Other than “I don’t like pvp, so nobody else should”
That’s what it boils down to
Except that people have answered why they don’t want it. It can create a situation where friends have to choose between the server type they want or playing without their friends. You can brand that as being selfish and I don’t even disagree with such a label being applied. But the situation is still a negative impact on their gameplay that doesn’t exist today.
But then they tell pvp players to “stay in war mode”, right? If they want the “wpvp” experience?
So if they stay in war mode, that’s still breaking up players. Because a pve player and pvp player cannot exist on 2 different modes. They are invisible to each other.
So, it still comes down to either the pve player being forced in to a pvp situation or a pvp player being forced to a pve server.
The concept is still the same.
And I guess you’re at least admitting that’s it’s selfish so good on you for at least recognizing that. But I still think players should have the right to play the game the way they want to
Except that it is a hearthstone away from being able to switch between the two. It isn’t equivalent to leveling two characters and maintaining them.
Its not fun having to go back to capital city, turn off it off, go back to the content, go back after the content, turn it on later, repeat. It’s a hassle and waste of time
Not as much as having a whole other character on a whole other server? We can agree on that, right?
uhhm pve players chose to play on pvp servers and complained about pvp. do to this warmode was implemented and now everyone sits with warmode off and the only time they turn on warmode to pvp is when they feel like it. which means u can spend hours running around the damn world trying to find 1 person to pvp against. its happened many many times. we are forced to look on other servers until we can find a fight and even then may not. i dont get why pvers chose to play on pvp servers then complained about pvp. make that make sense. if u chose a pvp server then u opted in for… PVP. so tell me how the hell pvpers made pvers lives hell ON A PVP SERVER? i see pvers saying “how is warmode and a pvp server different” hmm well i just answered it didnt i. iv seen the same damn answer from every pvper. as for servers being one sided i was on multiple servers that was balanced until a horde guild or alliance guild started offering butt loads of gold or even real life money/gametime payed for to transfer to their side.and people took those offers unfortunately. but that wont be a problem this time look at SoD they found a way to do faction balancing and it works. the only server i saw not have that crap happen is emerald dream rppvp server where the numbers stayed almost 50/50. yes it fluctuated 5% but still it always came back to 50/50. whats funny is that server was epic lots of rppvp and lots of world pvp. warmode came out and now its dead when it comes to rp pvp and pvp. you dont notice it but us pvpers did. it went from a very active rppvp community to you have to have alts or friends with alts on other servers to go hunting down horde or alliance cause u cant find any in the world. for us pvpers the servers feel dead.
I personally would not have two separate characters.
For those that choose to join a pvp server (remember they don’t have to, nobody is forcing them), and still want an additional character on a normal server with war mode, yes it’ll probably be more work for them. If that happens to be a situation someone is faced with, when a new pvp server opens, they may be better off staying on the normal server and pretending like the pvp server doesn’t exist. They can play with their friends, war mode, etc. But the point is, the option is there.
Maybe the have their main on a normal server and their alt is on a pvp server where they only play a few hours a week?
Or maybe they decide to dedicate all their time to playing with friends on the normal server.
Maybe they decide their guild/friends are more important than a pvp server and decide to stay right where they already are.
Player choice and option is not a bad thing
yes that problem dosnt exist but there is a problem that was created. world pvp dosnt really exist. iv literally hunted for horde for house and found 1 who was flying around but wouldnt land at all. so us pvpers who love world pvp are now the ones having issues. i play the game for the pvp. world pvp i should say. i have to find it in SoD and classic cause it dosnt exist in retail anymore and id love to play retail cause i love some of the stuff they added but i have no drive to play it cause no world pvp what so ever unless i spend hours and have every friend invite me to their server to hunt. we shouldnt have had to suffer because of this situation but here we are having to fight with people to give us one damn server that is pvp
Pvp died in wow a long time ago
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Such an insightful response. Thanks for your contribution
id died when warmode came out. emerald dream had some fun world pvp on a server that was 50/50 up until warmode came out. then do to an issue where alliance was split amongst a bunch of shards and horde wasnt so alliance got outnumbered in every engagement do to the sharding issue alliance turned off warmode and by the time blizz fixed it and made it even again it was to late the dmg was done and most of alliance kept warmode off do to it. then they tried to give incentives to get alliance to turn on warmode which upset horde cause they didnt get damn good gear as quickly as alliance did which forced them to sit without warmode on in the hopes they would get the same quest but it was eventually removed and now no one sits in warmode but maybe a handful that you may see if ur lucky while running around. been screwing around with my lvl 62 hunter in dragonflight and i havnt seen a single horde in warmode. lol its that dead now i should say the min i remove warmode i see so many people its insane. pvp died when warmode happened with the sharding issue. now us pvpers that would love to world pvp and have the fun we use to up until this happened are asking for 1 server that is it 1 pvp server with faction balancing.
But the choice already exists to turn on and off world pvp. In fact, people in this thread are making the claim that War Mode, a player choice, killed pvp.
And, if people are choosing not to go on this server, from those who actually do want to do world pvp, then the population seems to be even smaller than the War Mode population. Is that enough to support the worth of this one server, when you filter out all the people who won’t be on it?
This doesn’t really work, people have demonstrated that it exists, a rebuttal of ‘nuh-uh’ doesn’t win you any points.
You don’t have to suffer because people are bullying the world pvpers, you just have to go into War Mode for the world pvp. If you only care about world pvp, go do that. Go to the free for all points, fight people when they show up to do the world quests. You will find people who are in War Mode with you. Blizzard dredging out PvP servers to make a new one wouldn’t magically create a new population for it. The population in War Mode is people who want to World PvP, and people who don’t but think the rewards outweigh the negatives.
And that issue is the population in war mode was low, because world pvp is not popular, there are few people who want to engage with it. The issue you describe is the population being lopsided and small, that is not going to be fixed by one server. It might fix faction balance if Blizzard made the server, and if they forced faction balancing, but that is a lot of ifs and big changes that would be needed for a population that isn’t there and an archaic system that Blizzard chose to stop using.
The mental gymnastics on this point are hilarious. That is not at all my experience with PVP servers.
Give World of Warcraft a permanent Siege Perilous server detached from other servers economies with perma PvP enabled and market it properly and release the server FRESH with an expac and I guarantee you you have a full server by the end of that expac and a great small single server community vibe.
Because war mode is not a fun pvp experience! I’ve even had people tell me straight up they don’t play retail because war mode sucks and they would prefer a classic pvp server, which worse graphics and recycled content, over the absolute turd that war mode is.
And if we want to talk about splitting the player base, people choose to play classic and won’t even touch retail because of the experiences they have ruined for players with these nonsense modes that pve players choose to engage in just for the extra perks, and pvp players don’t even like.
Warmode is actually pretty entertaining.
Level 70 decides to gank or camp you, you die. Even with multiple 60-69s you are unlikely to succeed because of how big the power differential is. Check out Wingrest Embassy or the Ruby Life Pools several times per day to see this.
Bring in your own level 70, 90+ percent of the time the other 70 runs away instead of engaging in PvP.
Close to even level fights you, if you die they’ll keep killing you. But as soon as you kill them once you’ll never see them again.
Every hour or so General chat is filled with complaints about the PvP World Quest. “OMG, it’s so unfair that the Horde/Alliance fights back! Just die already!”
In many ways Warmode reminds me of playing on Stormrage from 2005-2008: most people would ignore you unless you happened to be going through an area that was ‘happening’ at the time. Camping, ganking, and other WPvP events happened, but they were actually pretty rare compared to the total server population.
While there are some people who would want to be on a permanent PvP enabled server, most of the players would quickly conclude that the advantages of Warmode outweigh their desire for unrestricted WPvP and leave.
You would be better off asking Blizzard to fix the issues associated with Warmode (sharding, layering, phasing, rewards, etc.) to incentivize more WPvP than in asking for a dedicated server.