If undead join the Alliance, how will Alliance players respond?


(Solythn) #15

Your headcanon is funny and all, but there’s no evidence that this has happened. DKs are still Alliance.


#16

Well yes, but there are exceptions. And I think it’s quite clear that we’re supposed to be rather uncomfortable with this development in Calia anyway; it will be a plot point in the near future, I’m sure: The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all

Well, this was retconned. Originally, channeling light just destroyed them. Any contact with it. The “it hurts a lot” thing was a change that happened either with the launch of WoW or with Cataclysm.


(Droité) #17

I’m going to piss people off. I’d be totally fine with some variant of Alliance Undead (provided the split is centered on an ideological one, between those that wish to still prioritize their identities as Citizens of Lordearon first, and those that identify more with the Forsaken ideology). That being said, I’d be prefer Faol be that faction’s leader; if such an Allied Race faction needs to exist.

Plus, I’ve grown sick of the Forsaken victim complex narrative. Having a race essentially be immune to accountability (unless they act out against Sylvanas), because they can (and will) blame anything and everyone else for their own decisions and actions has grown beyond frustrating. Its long overdue time the Forsaken figure out what they are beyond the Alliance’s supposed “Betrayal”, just like its about time the Horde figures out what it is without the fear of the Alliance forcing them together.


(Benezet) #18

Hardly. I saw the DK questline in Legion. They have one true king and it isn’t Anduin.


(Hackbrew) #19

How can I make fun of you for being a Human Paladin if you don’t act like it!?!

Anyway, serious note, I just despise the idea of “Light Zombies” in general. I loathe the idea of defanging a curse and removing every downside that comes with being undead.

I didn’t like it when it happened to the Worgen curse, and I don’t like it happening to the Curse of Undead.

Plus, I don’t want the Forsaken’s namesake to be even more invalidated than it already is.


(Benezet) #20

Tbh this is my main problem. Now that Lightforged undead are a thing, all other undead are “curable” and the macabre charm of the undead is removed. Like the worgen curse (all the benefits without any drawbacks except some nasty smells), it just ruins it all.

Idk what the point of it was. I really want to know what they are gonna do with Calia.

Maybe I’m wrong and Sylvanas DOES get tossed into the bin and Calia reclaims her throne and all the undead get the chance to be Lightforged a la new customization options like the Elves and thus the “Forsaken Question” is solved.

I guess that’d be…fine. Might even switch Horde just to serve ol Lordaeron again.


#21

I mean, if by “good” you mean “Faction traitors” sure. But plenty of Forsaken can remain Horde and not abide by evil. The Desolate Council is an obvious example. Calia would just be recruiting from those disloyal to the Horde, those who have affection left for their family, those who simply live in Lordaeron and don’t really care who rules them (the most moral event), or those who are being forcibly lightforged (/shrug).

Unlike most Paladins, I actually read the dusty books in our monasteries. :wink:


(Treng) #22

I wasn’t super on board with your post until I read this. Yeah, this really would be the jumping the shark moment for the story. The point of no return.


#23

I think he’s saying that already existed as soon as the Lightforging process was introduced in Legion. IIRC it makes Turalyon immortal.


#24

Alliance was the faction of light. Now they have void and shamanism, why not undeath? Since death knights are already part of the faction. The factions are losing their identities.


(Benezet) #25

Thing about the Desolate Council is that Sylvanas was right that what they espoused doom the Forsaken to die out. There’s only two solutions for the Forsaken the way I see it:

Win the war and embrace the Forsaken as a Scourge-lite faction.

OR

Lose the war, reestablish Lordaeron under Calia, and Lightforge the Undead and make moot the comparisons to the Scourge.

Either one have its problems. The first one maintains the cool undead aesthetic and keep it consistent with the narrative but continue to cause moral problems for the Horde. Basically status quo.

The latter would make the aesthetic inconsistent with narrative, solve moral problems, but also upend the Forsaken identity and aesthetic. It also would be really really ironic given the MagHar joined the Horde to escape being Lightforged.

So so so so messy


(Julia) #26

The allied races so far seem to be variants of the existing races. After Zandalari and Kul Tirans are here it will leave two races per side without a variant: Undead and Goblins for the horde, Gnomes and Worgen for the Alliance.

Assuming the horde gets the aquatic golbin variants from Naz’jatar and Alliance gets Junker Gnomes from Mechagon, we are left with Undead and Worgen.

Personally I would prefer a Night Elf Worgen Variant for the Alliance and let the horde have nathanos model undead or something.

But if the undead are added to the Alliance it will simply be an allied race not be played by me. But to be honest that is the case for the vast majority of the allied races so far.


#27

This is more prudential politics than morality. It might be prudent for the sake of certain ends (goals) but it isn’t particularly moral in any obvious sense.


(Benezet) #28

I WILL race change my old scarlet crusade character to a Lightforged Undead if given the chance to have Calia as my racial leader. Doubly-so if part of the Alliance.

Undead with all the benefits and zero reprecussions AND blessed by the Naaru to boot? Sign my boy up and I’ll make it the new Scarlet Crusade’s mission to forcibly Lightforge the world for the glory of Queen Calia!


(Droité) #29

Honestly, if a “Lightforged Undead” needs to exist, I would much prefer Calia actually stay true to her word and try getting to know here people again before she attempts to take a position of authority. She can be IN some higher support position, but it really should be Alonsus Faol and Leonid Barthalomew (two individuals who have lived with being Undead for a long time, yet chose their own paths) that take charge of any such faction (at least until such a time where Calia understands her existence, and her people’s existence, enough to take over).


(Benezet) #30

I don’t HATE this Idea but I’d temper it with at least having Calia as the crown. We deserve a Queen to be our soveirgn and protector—even if she’s not quite ready and we gotta be governed by Faol or whatever. I didn’t complain about Anduin needing a regent.

Honestly though, now I hope I can start my new journey as a Lightforged Undead Scarlet Crusader on a mission to purify Lordaeron in a way the old Crusade could’ve only dreamed of


#31

I don’t fundamentally disagree. But I think it will be both.

Sylvanas isn’t going away. Or at least, the Forsaken aren’t. My preference is for a third Faction to arise as the Horde splits between Sylvanas loyalists who value change and win-by-any-means, and another for old Horde traditionalist types led by rebels like Thrall, Rokhan, and Baine. I don’t think playable Forsaken would be barred from either side of that schism, and might even have a rebel faction leader in Lilian Voss.

Lightforged Undead will be Alliance under Calia. It seems like, lore-wise, the Alliance will maintain a pretty hefty grip on Lordaeron. It also seems to be going in a Light / Void heavy theme, which I think will come to a head when the Alliance (likely) takes Silvermoon by the end of the expansion. I’m not convinced that the Alliance will be spared these Factional ruptures either.


(Benezet) #32

Perhaps, Martelle. It’s difficult to wrestle with the undead just from a meta-game standpoint. I could see your solution playing out too and Blizz did seem to want to make clear that the exchanges in Kalimdor and Lordaeron are meant to be permanent.


(Droité) #33

Its an interesting prospect tbh, and let me say this … I do think there is a place (and interesting avenue’s for storytelling) for the Forsaken side of that Undead split as well (but NOT under Sylvanas Windrunner). She has a long history of using others as tools for personal objectives (and yes, the Forsaken are among those people clearly within “Edge of Night”). As such, she alone has NEVER really been bound by the core tenant of “Free Will” central to the Forsaken’s ideology.

There is a part of me that hopes that Sylvanas will do something so horrific that it finally loosens the deathgrip that she has on Blightcaller (I truly want to see what sort of person he is, when he’s allowed to grow beyond being Sylvie’s dog. There were a few momentary cracks showing, but nothing else); but I would also like Lilian Voss (who does exemplify “Forsaken Free Will”, but without the burden of the “Sylvanas Cult of Personality”) to take a more central leadership role as well (post Sylvanas).


#34

This is some fun role play potential actually. Kudos.