You are doing a false equivalency and trying to justify it by victim blaming.
Stop doing that and I will stop calling you out on it.
Were they controlled by the legion in WoD? Where they controlled by the Legion in BFA?
Go on justify those two.
Did the Draenei say something mean to push the WoD orcs to mass slaughter or did the Night Elves withhold valuable resources they owned from the Horde to warrant war of thorns?
Come on say it with me.
And its not like all those Horde leaders have been following her.
Supporting her.
Defending her so far.
Surely they are all blameless of anything and everything.
Afterall god forbid the Alliance responds with anything than turning the other cheek and asking for more.
that wasn’t our horde. and they were whipped up into a frenzy by garrosh, so… you can’t really compare the two. Garrosh was a dink. no arguments there, but everyone was good by the end of that expansion, complaints about the writing aside (Draenor… is… FREEEEEEE!)
says you. i seem to have more support than you in this instance, however, so i’ll defer to the majority on this one.
Answering atrocities with atrocities is always a good way to end a conflict. /sarcasm
no one’s blameless in this game. Well. Maybe Anduin.
But what if we judged all of the alliance humans on Arthas’s actions?
What if we judged all the night elves on Azshara’s actions 10K+ years ago?
What if we judged all dwarves on the dark irons?
I can go on.
It stops when you both walk away. Its more than time to heed that.
I would be happy the game needs it.
The alliance is suffering alot since pandaria. And now in bfa we see a faction that dont want to pvp and has no ground in high end pve(raid and mythics +) if that continues to happen we may see the alliance bein the faction of those who just want to rp and casuals.
I just play horde but i understand that the other side is vital for my game to survive as is BE to the horde existence.
From a lore standpoint I just want the factions dismantled and the factin races having more lore on their own.
We were talking about orcs and their invasions.
And lol you are going to excuse all the orcs because some madman worked them up in a frenzy?
Is that all it takes?
Remember siege of orgrimmar? Man what an atrocity Varian commited there by giving the Horde everything they wanted.
HAHA those are your points? Do you seriously want me to debunk them now or later?
We did that in Siege of Orgrimmar. See what happened in BFA.
Clearly it was a mistake and we should have listened to Jaina.
Yeah, there was still a cancer in the horde at that point though. Sylvanas was still there. She’s been doing evil things since she started, as you yourself pointed out.
Pretend that teldrassil never burned. Pretend the horde never attacked. Aside from saurfang and sylvanas, which of those leaders did you have a problem with?
I don’t recall Sylvanas dragging the Horde by their tail to commit evil.
And that’s the same naivity that assumed that because 1 bad guy died the Horde is repaired.
Next expansion you will be telling me “Well Geyarah and Gallywix were still left…”
Except they did happen and every Horde character’s behaviour afterwards damns them.
What didn’t I pay attention to? Sylvanas convincing Saurfang to attack Night Elves with no provocations from them and he promptly agreed?
After Teldrassil every Horde leader fully knowing what Sylvanas had done decided to instead of arresting her to join her defense.
After her defeat instead of arresting her they decided to find allies to join them.
And here we are.
Every Horde leader has done everything in their power to help Sylvanas and her war fully knowing what she has done. But yeah. According to you they are innocent of all wrong doing.
Of course.
the part where she led everyone there on false pretenses, and in one instance coerced a member state of the horde to fight for her, or risk her attacking thunder bluff.
I answered this question.
If BFA prepatch did not I had problems with them supporting Garrosh for the duration of Cataclysm and MoP.
Despite all that I let it go. The idea was the Horde learned its lesson and it would not happen again.
Except it did. A hundred times worse it did.
Compound this with Cata, MoP, WoD, Broken Shore and Stormheim Sylvanas shenanigans.
Every Horde leader supporting her unconditionally UNTIL she turns on the Horde.
EXACTLY LIKE GARROSH.
The Horde is perfectly fine with everything that is happening until it happens to them and then suddenly they wake the F up.
It would have worked best if the two factions never united against a common foe but were always at each others throats.
Leave it to the heroes as unique individuals to bond together and cross faction lines to fight the big bads. They encourage thier factions to do the background work to open up the chance for a group of 10/25/40 to break in and get the job done.
Then when we meet each other on a faction battlefield we still fight for our faction we love but honor and respect the enemy commanders (other players) whom we have battled beside against greater evils.
You could have the big bads that take more than one faction to down and play into players hating factions but not other players,
See this is where the storytelling is at fault. We only know how two other members of the horde actually felt… Baine and Saurfang. The first we really heard from Lorthemar was him yelling at void elves in the battle for lordaeron. We know he’s considering making friends with the alliance now though. Rokhan(sp?) is helping the zandalari because of course he is… they’re trolls. We’re not sure how pro-war he is. Baine is more concerned with helping them too, because (but they don’t explain this) i’m pretty sure he’s conflicted about fighting the alliance. Eitrigg i assume is the de-facto leader of the orcs now, and we know he prefers peace with humans due to his friendship with Tirion Fordring. Rexxar and Thalyssra are starting to come around because what they’re being asked to do is straight evil, but we don’t know their opinions before anything started. Thrall’s alternate universe sister… well… she hates the draenei. Makes sense based on what Yrel’s doing in alt-draenor. Gallywix is Gallywix. All for the money. If he died, i don’t think i’d shed a tear there either.
We really don’t know how everyone felt, but based on the storytelling, most of the leaders seem to have concerns, but fear sylvanas. At least thats how i read it. Different people can read different things when the story is super vague.
Bottom line, i’ve been a pacifist when it comes to the horde since the beginning. The faction conflict is hamfisted, and if they were going to make everyone support her, at least give everyone enough screen time to explain why they supported her.
So i get why you feel the way you do. I just don’t feel that way myself.
And at the very least, lets get the tauren in the alliance. They clearly don’t belong over there
I meant at the tree, but yes, i remember him being at the undercity. That was defensive, however. Defending civilians is different than burning down a city.
